Dub / Reggae: An Idiot's Guide

so if i walk into hmv tomorrow and buy the island issue of MG (+ dub set) , the edition i buy will be crap and not representative of the actual album ?

― mark e, Sunday, February 23, 2014

no. it's got its own charms, and the differences are matters of minor degree, not wholesale.

cheers people. its mine.

so much great material remains relatively undiscovered or lost to time, e.g., the jolly brothers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUpvFL_sGg

^^^^^^^
you seeeeee ..

that's the beauty of reggae.

cheap to record and it still sounds glorious decades later .

i.e. loving that ..

That Jolly Brothers single got a major label release in the UK (on Ballistic / UA)! I love it but the LP it was part of was a bit disappointing.

Seven Leaves put out a fine LP of their work with Lee Perry but I rarely see it around any more.

okay d/led Marcus Garvey and Garvey's Ghost

one of the things I was getting at w my "apocalyptic reggae" question is that I am always on the lookout for albums that marry the more esoteric religio-politico righteous rastafari lyrical stuff with the spare, ominous minor key boom of the best dub and tbh this seems to be kind of a rarity. I mean I love War in a Babylon and Two Sevens Clash but musically they aren't exactly dark sounding, loads of major key melodies and harmonies etc. This juxtaposition isn't a bad thing at all, but I was just wondering how much of a flipside there was to that, how much is out there that is sort of ... scary sounding? I guess?

Garvey's Ghost mostly fitting the bill btw

shakey : have you got any prince far i ?

if not, then he's your man for the apocalyptic reggae groove.
not called the 'voice of thunder' for no reason.
and as someone has said before, 'come for voice, stay for the dub'
a perfect marriage of dark vocal tracks of heavy religious , and deep dub.
love the opening track on this album :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv2sqbdJfEQ

yeah I have Under Heavy Manners and Livity. don't have Voice of Thunder but yeah his voice definitely fits the bill (moreso than, say, the sweet falsetto of Junior Murvin)

voice of thunder is embedded within this trojan release :

http://www.discogs.com/Prince-Far-I-Heavy-Manners-Anthology-1977-1983/master/254468

great stuff ..

Xpost

Fave Far-I LPs Mark?

"Under Heavy Manners" is probably mine, but that's one of the first reggae LPs I ever really, really loved. Still know every second of it (and wish my copy was the proper coloured sleeve Joe Gibbs with the extra 30secs of dub at the end).

Also love the first 2 dub encounters (3 and 4 also fine but maybe not quite as good), Psalms For I. Never heard a actual bad one.

i dont have that much far i other than that compilation

however, its when adrian sherwood uses samples of his vocals that things really hit the spot for me.

all time fave prince far i track = bedward the flying preacher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arWbdzckkSA

That's such a winner!

I think a fair bit of the Cry Tuff Dub Encounter series is Sherwood.

yeah, before On-U, AMS worked a lot on Prince Far I material ..

I am always on the lookout for albums that marry the more esoteric religio-politico righteous rastafari lyrical stuff with the spare, ominous minor key boom of the best dub and tbh this seems to be kind of a rarity. how much is out there that is sort of ... scary sounding? I guess?

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, February 24, 2014

__________________________________

Garvey's Ghost mostly fitting the bill btw

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, February 24, 2014

i love this particular subset of roots reggae and dub, too. i don't think it's rare; i just think it takes some digging. marcus garvey pretty much nails it, top-to-bottom, in this regard. honestly, tho, aside from the title track, i don't think garvey's ghost does. the title track's ghostly, dark arrangement gives you the sense you're huddling with revolutionaries underground, while some enemy is moving troops overhead. it's a powerful song. the rest of that album, tho, doesn't live up to the same standards. brighter melodies and a lighter atmosphere. have you heard prince alla's stone? i think it fits the bill, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPDOqoB0klE

I mean I love . . . Two Sevens Clash

never understood the appeal of this disc.

huh I am unfamiliar with Prince Alla

really worth your time.

^yes

a few more for you, shakey (trying to choose songs that meet your criteria, too, but YMMV in that regard).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9G_Hb11KwA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bsuSlHSgqA

on a related subject, this is a reggae song, from 1970, i think, but this version is very recent (which, yes, makes it "inauthentic" for me). it does have that suffocating, dark atmosphere you mention, tho it lacks any religious overtones. i think the artist is from germany or something. "whatevs," as the kids say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9AbUKeiltQ

huh I am unfamiliar with Prince Alla
--How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier)

What?!?!

dude I'm slow!

I wholeheartedly recommend both B&F sets. Also the best dubs on freedom sounds in dub are versions of Alla tunes. He's got an amazing voice.

Studio One is a surprisingly decent source for this kind of reggae imo. Obviously Burning Spear's first two albums, especially the original "Door Peep" which is the zenith of this vibe, but even Alton Ellis's "Blackish White" sounds pretty haunting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkhL1bUOSAc

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestnews/US-based-reggae-producer-Philip-Smart-dies

US-based reggae producer, and former NY reggae radio host Philip Smart dies

excerpt:

KINGSTON, Jamaica -- Phillip Smart, whose Long Island studio was the hub for reggae/dancehall in the tri-state area, died Tuesday in Port Washington, New York.

Smart, who was in his late 50s, died from pancreatic cancer, his brother-in-law and business partner Michael McDonald confirmed.

The prolific engineer/producer worked with countless artistes at his HC&F Recording Studio in Long Island, most notably Shaggy who recorded several of his hit songs there.

‘Mampie’, ‘Oh Carolina’, ‘Big Up’ and ‘Angel’ were some of the songs Shaggy worked on at HC&F.

man, this prince alla song is, to me, every bit as epic as anything from, say, led zepplin or black sabbath. just such a massive sound, that apocalyptic production and vocal sound, with hooks from beginning-to-end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJnI6rfDoUE

not sure if i prefer the original or the king tubby produced dub version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9KT5N6xVc

in an interview, i saw prince alla say that he had to resort to being a fisherman during his heyday, because unscrupulous producers would tell him a record hadn't been released, then he discovered it had, but overseas (e.g., in the u.k.). i wonder which producers he's referring to (king tubby?).

woah this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whDTHVbzIQk

the angels aren't really getting a discount but then again trout is an unprecedented player
--le goon (J0rdan S.)

In

man, this prince alla song is, to me, every bit as epic as anything from, say, led zepplin or black sabbath. just such a massive sound, that apocalyptic production and vocal sound, with hooks from beginning-to-end.



not sure if i prefer the original or the king tubby produced dub version.



in an interview, i saw prince alla say that he had to resort to being a fisherman during his heyday, because unscrupulous producers would tell him a record hadn't been released, then he discovered it had, but overseas (e.g., in the u.k.). i wonder which producers he's referring to (king tubby?).
--Daniel, Esq 2

King Tubby was an engineer. Producers are like Dodd, Lee, Perry, Pablo.

how do you distinguish between producer and engineer? creative input?

there's not a great way to really distinguish, but in JA music, a useful shorthand would be that the producer pays the singer and the musicians (and the engineer). There are (probably lots of) exceptions, like Lee Perry and King Jammy, but a lot of Jamaican producers were really just financiers and networkers and didn't have much creative input in the way that we think of producers like Brian Eno, though bringing together the right mix of musicians + singer + engineer certainly had an affect on individual songs as well as the course of the music in general. afaik Tubby didn't really do the kind of record label type work that would give you the opportunity to unscrupulously cheat people like Dodd, Winston Riley, Bunny Lee, and others have been accused of.

i knew robert palmer liked roots-reggae. i didn't know he briefly recorded at lee "scratch" perry's black arc studio in the 70s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS6hTE3NuPY

interesting results.

pretty interesting indeed - palmer doesn't quite pull off fitting into the groove to my ear but texturally his voice is a great fit and he has some great moments

Yeah its weird. He ignores the one drop rhythm and phrases everything like its a standard 4/4 beat

Ha yeah I just heard that not too long ago

Trinity's "Rasta Determination" fitting the apocalyptic dub niche nicely

Studio One is a surprisingly decent source for this kind of reggae imo.

just picked up 8 soul jazz reissues cds of studio one grooves

someone had dumped the lot into my local fopp and they were £2 a pop !

was not going to pass on those

bloke behind counter : "they were mine, only put them in the racks an hour ago .. "

timing.

this doesn't have the booming low-end, and it's more of a plea to civility than a warning of apocalyptic doom, but i think it gets at the themes and vibes that shakey wanted. i love the almost ghostly guitar lines curling around the periphery of the song. this also shows you how many great, epic tunes were recorded at lee perry's black-arc studios but left unreleased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3E-I3NKfAM

also, this song -- posted long ago by scott seward -- is epic.

okay, i can't resist, two tracks that knocked me on my butt this week. so much so that i don't know if i can part with the 12 inches despite the fact that i am supposedly a record dealer. but they are both so epic. guitar at the end of the earl zero track kills me every time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7_e-CciHig

the guitars at the end sound very un-reggae to me (much more like a rock song). i'm intrigued by it. other examples of guitars used to similar effect in roots reggae songs?

I think I'm gonna make a playlist

really wish the Trinity was on youtube, annoyed I can't share that here

this is a little lightweight, but c'mon, it's the heptones, junior mervin, and the congos, together at lee perry's black ark studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD55r-GNWRk

really sweet vocal harmonies here.

maybe less "lightweight," and more "under-rehearsed," but that's part of the charm, i think.

so great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEio3UiquFs

anyone know the movie this clip comes from?

That's from Roots Rock Reggae: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245397/

it's on youtube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0UFSo7UaWA

you should definitely watch it! I havent watched it in years but there's not much else out there from that time, and it's well put together though you'll frequently wish they'd left entire performances intact

don't think I've seen that. crazy! would also recommend "Rockers" from around the same time, that is a really fun movie w/a handful of great performance clips

That "Roots Rock Reggae" was shown as "Beats of the Heart" in UK Channel 4 sometime in the 80s, I remember loving it so much then.

There's a sequence featuring some fellow hanging around waiting for an audition with someone (Jack Ruby?), singing a sing called "Tribulation" that has stuck with me these 20+ years. I've sometimes wondered whether he was the singer called "Tribulation Man", none of whose work I've ever seen / heard. Bet he's not.

isn't that close to the beginning? think i saw that scene last night.

Could be - haven't seen it in two decades!

great thread, great thread revival. so many awesome recommendations here. been listening to a ton of classic reggae/dub recently so this thread is hitting me in a timely way.