what is going on in your musical life

It kind of depends on what your band dynamic is - if the drummer came with the band then you might be causing ructions, if he's just been playing along with you guys for a couple of times then it'd almost certainly be fine.

Yeah hes a later addition, and the other 3 of us are really the core of things, and we've all ummed and erred over his over-enhtusiastic style of playing. But he's a mate of the bass player's as well so, I don't know. Personally I'd be just as happy with a drum machine but I'm the singer, what do I know ;)

Nearly every drummer I've ever worked with does not know the meaning of subtle.

does he know that you'd like him to play more subtly

do you want him to play like a drum machine

This might be unfair but I think there's such a thing as 'drummer complex for some players where because they're generally stuck at the back and given a functional, anchoring role in the band with maybe a few backing vocals, they sometimes feel the need to overcompensate by showboating and smacking the shit out their drumset.

keithmoon.jpg

drummers are musicians too y/n?

dl, that's something bad musicians do tbh!

Buncha Neil Youngs in this thread

u goddamn right

may u find your crazy horse

That's my dream!

Oh man, I've got two or three new songs/productions I'm working on that are about to be finished and honestly they count as by far my best work to date. It's weird though because while they're all largely based on jams we came up with as a band, they've been largely produced at home on Reason (so electronic drums), and many of the elements I've come up with away from the rest of the band.
I don't want to exclude the others from the creative process at all, but I feel like I've also got a lot of drive and vision with these tunes and I'm largely capable of working on them without the (often meddlesome) input of other people. It's a bit of a conflict really - are these the band's songs or are they my own productions with a couple of elements from other people?
Also, as we're a three-piece and these new tracks are quite a different realm from the post-punk stuff we've been playing live, I'm wondering how we can recreate them happily if we take them to the stage.
Either we'd need to get a laptop playing bits automatically, which I'm really not keen on since it makes live playing very rigid and formulaic and we'd have to work out a way for everyone to stick to time. Also laptops on stage really aren't very interesting or appealing. So the other option is to get other musicians involved and at the moment I can't even find one person to help out on guitar, let alone a keyboardist or other player.

opening up for someone whose name rhymes with bran beacon this weekend, hope it goes well (mostly in terms of the show being well-attended, since i've been trying to get this promoter to consider me for things like this for a couple years now).

Nice one. Good luck Jordan

thanks! btw i think you should go solo.

Ooh, nice one Jordan, I love Fran Freakon live.

DL, I kind of think the questions you're asking are things that only you guys can know. Obviously the act of phrasing the question is in itself a way of hashing this stuff out, so don't think I'm saying "don't ask us", but... it all depends. It depends on how you talk about this stuff to each other, it depends on what your relationships are. It depends on your confidence levels, it depends on your shared and individual goals.

are these the band's songs or are they my own productions with a couple of elements from other people?

It depends. Who wrote them? You? The band? Are they your songs but with band arrangements? Your songs with band arrangements with your own production? Or did you do everything and they just played what you told them to? One thing I will say is if the others are involved in the writing process and you decide to just take those songs for yourself because "well, I wrote them", people will be pissed off.

I'm wondering how we can recreate them happily if we take them to the stage.

Sometimes you just can't - either keep them as studio tracks or rework them so the live show is a different thing. Or consider a cheap sampler if you've got snippets coming in and out... there are a few songs by my band where I've made long-ish multi-sample tracks and just play the mp3s through my ipod when needed. Both of those things are a little more tactile than just playing a track through a laptop, but honestly I don't think having a laptop onstage is that bad a thing.

I don't necessarily agree with Jordan, but you do seem to be pretty negative about your band experiences here. I don't know if that's just because this is a place to vent without having to deal with the kickback from your friends, or if it's because you are actually not having the best time... but maybe that's another thing for you to think about.

also i'll say that if you do want to add pre-recorded electronic parts to your live band, it can be better to split them up into sections (nothing longer than four bars) and have someone manually trigger them on a sampler or drum pads. basically what emily says. that way you don't have to worry about the whole band staying in time with sequences, because even if things get off they'll get reset on the next phrase.

Crediting your band on songwriting is very important if you want to keep the band together, ime. Typically it's good to identify which songs were a collaborative process and give the guy/girl who wrote the melody+chords 51% of the songwriting credit and split the remainder between other band members-- this is re: registering the song with your publisher. Even if the profits are slim, and it is thus a symbolic gesture, having the band feel as if they are personally and creatively invested in the project leads to strong ties of commitment in the long run.

Also I've seen bands break up at this stage because the drummer is like "but I wrote that drum beat, why is my beat less important than your chords, melody and lyrics?" and the drummer is kind of otm. Technically he didn't write the song but the conditions for determining those designations are pretty arbitrary

Yeah I always credit all my collaborators even on the stuff I just stick on soundcloud as my solo work. Without them a lot of my stuff would be rubbish.

These wouldn't exist without my bandmates, really on the whole, as they're based on riffs and ideas we had whilst jamming. So they do deserve lots of credit, there's no doubt in that. It's not really a question of who these are by - these will be released under the name of the band. But I'm a bit self-conscious of doing a Billy Corgan here. Our schedules aren't syncing up as much as they used to - we used to have our own garage to practice in (goddammit) and everything was very democratic, but now we're all working different shifts and can only meet up to practice every so often. So in the meantime I'm just taking brief ideas we came up with in the practice room and fleshing them out on the computer. Every once in a while a bandmate will call-in and contribute a bit of backing vox or a lick here or there which is great, but I'm worried the dynamic risks excluding them a bit and that this could create friction since everyone in the band is a creative person at heart.

also i'll say that if you do want to add pre-recorded electronic parts to your live band, it can be better to split them up into sections (nothing longer than four bars) and have someone manually trigger them on a sampler or drum pads. basically what emily says. that way you don't have to worry about the whole band staying in time with sequences, because even if things get off they'll get reset on the next phrase.

― festival culture (Jordan), Monday, March 3, 2014 11:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Good idea, I'll look into the possibility of this.

I don't know if that's just because this is a place to vent without having to deal with the kickback from your friends, or if it's because you are actually not having the best time... but maybe that's another thing for you to think about.

I realise I come across like I'm moaning a lot ITT, but really it's because firstly I care a lot about the other dudes in my band - we've become very close since we started playing together a couple of years ago and I respect their ideas and ultimately their feelings. The band is something we all care about a lot but I'm very conscious of trampling or running wild around a project and getting too involved while blocking them out and making them feel frustrated. We've got very similar ideas but certain things (production choices for example, the drums never seem to be loud enough for my drummer evidently) we'll disagree with and then it can feel like a bit of an emotional battlefield. I guess this is regular band shit, and yeah I'm venting and thinking through out loud.

What I mean is dl is that when you register your songs with BMI or ASCAP (wait, you're UK and I don't know what you guys uuse), you will have to put down names, not band names. This is largely a symbolic gesture for 99% of bands out there, your drummer will be getting $2 cheques every year, but it means a lot imo, separates the Corgans and Stings from the rest of humanity. If you've established that you all stand to benefit from the success of these songs, people will mind less if you get pro-active, no?

Ah we're not at that stage yet by any means. I think it's more an issue of input, each member wanting to put their own personal stamp on a track. There's rarely a question as to who wrote a track (usually it's 50% one person/25%/25% the others and that's agreed).

But if a very rough jam demo is brought to someone's house, resequenced, rearranged, reordered and rerecorded in the image of just one person in the band it means that the track gets taken further and further away from the others.
On the one hand it's being helmed by one person who has the drive and vision and time to do it (making for productive work), but I'm worried about excluding people from the creative process because once I've spent hours and days thinking about how a track should sound and then tried to implement it at home in my spare time, I'm then playing the rest of the band music they had little part in creating. And the urge (on their part) is to want to do something to leave their mark on the track (so that it feels like they had a hand in it), whereas sometimes it can feel more like they're just meddling with something I've toiled over for days just for the sake of it.
I dunno, it's a strange dynamic. There's a lot of ego involved I guess, and mine's admittedly one of them.

Don't do it this way though:

During the recording sessions, Farrell stated he wanted 50 percent of the band's publishing royalties for writing the lyrics, as well as quarter of the remaining half for writing music, adding up to 62.5 percent total. Bassist Eric Avery said he and the other band members, guitarist Dave Navarro and drummer Stephen Perkins, were stunned by Farrell's demands.[2] Farrell refused to compromise. One day Jerden drove up to the studio to find Farrell, Navarro, and Perkins leaving; Farrell told him that the band had broken up and that there would be no record. Warner Bros. called an emergency meeting to resolve the situation. Farrell got the royalty percentage he sought, and the other band members received 12.5 percent each. Avery said the incident had a profound effect on the band, creating an internal fracture.[3]

Honestly dl? that problem is a band-killer and track-ruiner and something some bands never outgrow :) I mean, "leaving their mark on the track".

Maybe a good thing to try: if there is a track that needs a lot of solo work, sit down beforehand with your band members and establish some benchmarks for how the track should end up-- other tracks to compare your work to. If you're dealing, as a group, with a comparative exercise ("let's make this song as good as that song" "have we succeeded? why not") then there's less opportunity for weird ego stuff to get involved, it feels more like an assignment?

Cool cool. Yeah we do meet up and discuss ideas and I email them nearly every day with updates and 'here's how it's going' and 'I think this needs to change, what do you think?' type questions. That said neither of them have regular internet access so I guess it's not my fault if they don't read em. Again, I think it's about egos and feelings - I know everyone in the band wants to feel like they're contributing, or else why be in a band? Oh well... Anyway, I'll shut up now because these kinds of intraband foibles are essentially foibles which are as much effected by environment than anything else. But thanks FGTI, Jordan, emil.y, Trayce and all for listening to me moan ;-)

Maybe my classroom management skills are more portable than I thought! Good suggestions. Running off and doing yr own thing without setting expectations as a group first sounds like a situation made to be misunderstood. Wtf do I know, but this is a people issue in addition to a band issue.

Yes it is. Also working with people who both have minor mental health issues which can manifest in depression, self-doubt, moodswings etc is both a blessing and a curse.

god that sounded a bit horrible. i'm going to shut up now.

Continuing to proselytize my "be in a band with your friends" philosophy: I had a psychologically-motivating long-distance phone call with my drummer (works in a bar) who told me that he and my bassist (works in the same bar) spent their time closing up the night before talking about how much they loved some new demos, playing music, practising parts on their own, generally optimistic conversations and back-patting. I was depressed when I called and he completely cheered me up. But, I am fortunate enough to know these guys for 14 years, see my bassist be best man at my drummer's wedding, my boyfriend become best friends with my drummer's wife, etc. etc. I'm happy to work with strangers as a sub-ordinate, but if I'm gonna be Captain Creative on any project I'm gonna work with people who're gonna be with me all the way to the retirement home

I met my bass player via OK Cupid of all things, haha. But we very rapidly went "dating wont happen, but hey, wanna come jam with me and my buddy? I love your singing", and it turned into this thing that was so instantly right and clicked and magical that i couldnt help but sort of fall in love with my little team. I've never been happier to be a musician.

IOW I totally relate to what you're saying, goonie x

My Dad's not a big music fan and he's never really been all that fussed or interested in the music I make beyond a slightly nonplussed 'So you made this did you?' type of reaction. But I went round his house last night and played him the 7/8 track I'm working on and he totally flipped out and made me play it three more times over the course of the evening.
'By far the best thing you've ever done' he said, and while that kind of diminishes all the other things I've played him in the 17 years I've been making music, it did mean a hellavu lot to me. I think it must be the engineer in him which appreciated the irregular metre, but he also seemed to 'get' what I was trying to do, asking me about the lyrics and the various instruments in the mix. Anyway, it meant a lot to me and affirmed a few things. I'm happy!

That's really cool, DL!

Yeah, that's ace.

I am proud of the website I made:

http://resistorsings.com/

Cool site, I love the interface and I really like your songs Steve

Thanks dude I been honing my JavaScript chops

the cran creakin' show went very well, and he is a true gentleman.

venue lols:

when a dude asks you, a sound person, to mic his skateboard wheel so that one can hear it spinning. lmao, learn how shit works.

Tomorrow I'm doing my first actual gig where I'm the singer (rather than a backing singer), I'm not nervous at all, but we're still a bit sloppy/jammy, so I hope it goes ok! Its not a full show, we're doing a mere half hour set with a buncha other people, but cross yer appendages for me y'all! Im really excited about this. I love my band.

That is hilarious roxy.

Have fun Trayce. I have my first performance in a super long time on Monday, too.

Also I'm pumped about the artwork I just finished putting together.

Great stuff all! Trayce, you'll be fine.

Trying to coerce my band into working out an acoustic set. I've just worked out a version of 'Tainted Love' done in the style of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'.

that's exciting, trayce!
i am definitely still in the larval phase but it's spring so who knows what will happen

Half an hour isn't a full set?! Good luck, Trayce, you'll be great, I'm sure.

Struggling to stay awake long enough to finish this violin/piano piece, argh.

Got slightly more loldrunk than was wise before I sang, luckily I still did fine - so Im told, the sound was weird and I couldnt quite hear myself as I'd expected to, and it all went past in a deer in the headlights "ohshit I cant remember all my lyrics" blur. Fun!