Why does Europe love CocoRosie so much?

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I like how you're projecting

― deej, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:52 (seventeen years ago) link

No, not every person in real life, but those who submit themselves to mass media scrutiny use them as signals to establish a subcultural affiliation for social or commercial reasons. Doesn't a row of silver teeth as in the picture above have "gangsta" media associations? Doesn't it say "I'm a tough guy you don't wanna mess with?" CocoRosie are trying to dynamite that association or point up the shallowness of media identity by stripping the signals from their racial/cultural context. I think. If that is the case, my problem is that they're muddling the issue by not declaring their intent.

― fife, Thursday, 29 March 2007 00:08 (seventeen years ago) link

i like how everyone is afraid to take a stance for fear of ILM rejection, if I say i'm offended I'm being sensitive, if I say they're cool, then I like shitty music....hmmmm

such a catch 22
the right answer: fuck all y'alls I don't care

― tornup_andhurt, Thursday, 29 March 2007 00:12 (seventeen years ago) link

actually fuck all y'alls let's listen to LCD Soundsystem seems more appropriate

― tornup_andhurt, Thursday, 29 March 2007 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link

wouldn't muddling the issue make it a better point?

― vadx, Thursday, 29 March 2007 01:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I like Metallic Falcons.

― Manalishi, Thursday, 29 March 2007 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Am I gay for hearing similarities to The Microphones?

I've only heard one song, but that is what I got.

― redlightsting, Thursday, 29 March 2007 02:04 (seventeen years ago) link

fyi fife the girls with the grills aren't cocorosie

― Lingbert, Thursday, 29 March 2007 02:14 (seventeen years ago) link

There was a brainwashed article about CocoRosie's supposed flirtation with racism, but as far as I could tell it was just another one of the 3 billion bitchy daily posts written about rich kids in New York that seem to dominate the 'blogosphere'. I find it difficult to find any connection between this and real racist behaviour. White kids have been playing dress-ups as rappers for years, and it really only seems to signify a fascination with that scene. They know they can't pull it off without looking stupid so they turn it into some kind of a joke.

― badg, Thursday, 29 March 2007 03:23 (seventeen years ago) link

fyi fife the girls with the grills aren't cocorosie

Haha, ok, nevermind then. Maybe they're just goofball hipsters playing dress up.

― fife, Thursday, 29 March 2007 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

"and, in my non-professional opinion, ignoring any racial implications, this band sucks up a storm"

so right.
and yes, in Italy Cocorosie are "popular", at least in indie terms.

― Marco Damiani, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:36 (seventeen years ago) link

So... a bunch of students dressing up as Aunt Jemima = controversy!
A bunch of rich kids doing the same in a hip club = acceptable sociological phenomenon?

― StanM, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I didn't think the rich kids in the club were dressing as Aunt Jemima.

― badg, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:46 (seventeen years ago) link

ok, but it's almost comparable, isn't it?

― StanM, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Not sure how this figures into their "issues"/"racial flirtations"/"fascinations" or whatever, but the press photo for the new album depicts both of the women sitting on a blanket looking bored, with some kind of clown makeup on, chewing bubblegum. One of them is pointing a remote control off into the distance and wears a see-through mesh shirt with her breast visible.

― Ben Boyerrr, Thursday, 29 March 2007 08:33 (seventeen years ago) link

On the cover, they're both dressed in, er, black.

http://www.tgrec.com/bands/album.php?id=400

― StanM, Thursday, 29 March 2007 08:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm European, and I've never heard of Cocorosie.

― Tuomas, Thursday, 29 March 2007 08:44 (seventeen years ago) link

No shit.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 29 March 2007 09:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I think they're quite good here and there. I couldn't care less about any confused race (sounds more like culture to me) fetishism they might display outside of their music.

― blueski, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Cute girly curly ginger ironic racist is far too cute to be hanging out with soulless dead eyed hipster racist.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:32 (seventeen years ago) link

the first song on the new album has a much more hip-hop-ish style than anything they've done before. in the beginning, they had much more of a whispery folk thing going on (one of them is dating devendra banhart if i remember correctly?). is their alleged "race fetishism" or whatever not possibly just a turn in a new musical direction, and they're consequently adopting the "appropriate" cultural signifiers? i mean, if we ignore for a second an ill-considered, one-line quote in the washington post, what makes this any different than lady sov, m.i.a., spank rock, girl talk, or something else similar? or are they all racists too?

― modestmickey, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:59 (seventeen years ago) link

anyone watch that eternal children documentary? it's pretty good. you can watch the whole thing on youtube. cocodevendraantonyvashti action.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cw90TudSfXk

― Maria :D, Thursday, 29 March 2007 12:37 (seventeen years ago) link

oops, that was me scott. not maria.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Dude, nobody has called them racist. Personally I just find it fascinating to watch them sort through all this very "interesting" stuff.

P.S. Sorry for misunderstanding, Fife -- I didn't realize you thought the picture was Cocorosie, and I was all ready to go off on the "gangsta" description, since most of the black culture they focus on is either fake-Billie-Holiday sweaty-old-south stuff or just modern boho/arty city material (e.g., their backing group is VERY boho/hipster NYC black artist types).

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:30 (seventeen years ago) link

i ONLY know them from watching that documentary on youtube and from watching that i never would have known about the black thing. i just thought they were twee folkers.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Well yeah but Scott, as for the first part of my equation there, don't you think lots of freak-folk is interested in old-south stuff that winds up involving blackness? The popularity of the pinched-up fake-Holiday voice in itself seems like a thing there, and I think people wind up matching that to certain imagery that raises the issue. So I felt like it was a fairly natural and interesting leap for Cocorosie to start in on modern black-music signifiers, too.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link

although yeah i get the billie holiday thing. devendra has that too. devendra does a great blues mama thing! he sounds like david sedaris doing billie holiday doing the oscar meyer theme song.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

holiday x-post!

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Hahaha. I also can't imagine Cocorosie recording that first album in Paris without having like a bunch of Josephine Baker imagery in their heads.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

devendra has often stated that one of his biggest inspirations is ella jenkins:

http://www.naesp.org/client_files/EllaJenkins.jpg

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link

sorry about the confusing grills post.

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link

that one cocorosie person definitely has a distinctive voice. in that indie cat power mirah (maybe? can't really remember what she sounds like) kinda way. you don't expect it to sound as strange as it often does. maybe not mirah. maybe i'm thinking of someone else.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:51 (seventeen years ago) link

that was the first time i had heard/seen antony too watching that documentary. i don't know if i need any more antony. he's cool though.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

some more tangentially related stupidity:
http://www.shopthefizix.com/store/files/images//d_456.jpg

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Scott, if you mean the one I think you mean (the "secondary" instrument-player one, and not the lead), then yeah, she's really talented, and she can take her voice in some amazing directions -- at some point, watching them, I was like "wait, who's playing the theremin?" and then realized she'd just lapsed up into this amazing high quavering hum.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:00 (seventeen years ago) link

man where was ethan to turn this thread into the mess it could have been?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:04 (seventeen years ago) link

he posted, to make a jab at france's right wing

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

ha i missed it! subtle.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Dunno about ethan, but thread recovery circa scott & mickey's appearance = remarkable. Anyway, I like Cocorosie, and haven't ever been bothered by their toying with "blackness". Gets a bit creepy sometimes, but remains too self-aware (and confused) to register as anything objectionable. Bravely naive, maybe.

Anyway, I've never seen 'em, but at least one of them is an amazing singer. Dunno who to credit, though. I kinda like that the question of authorship is unresolved. It's not Bianca doing this and Sierra doing that, it's just Cocorosie.

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Night passes, morning comes, thread "recovers" from talking about race, bunnies frolic.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

no one took the bait about the john carlos skateboard streetwear : (

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

he posted, to make a jab at france's right wing

deej on Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:34 AM (1 hour ago)

lol this makes ilx sound like some algonquin round table shit

― and what, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Not recovery from talking about race. I'm all about race (ask anyone). Just recovery from not want part.

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

i wish i was talented in photoshop so i could make some sort of possibly_racist_drudgealert.gif. ilx desperately needs one.

― modestmickey, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

The use of the n-word. There was never the same controversy when Jack White sung "When I hear that nigger sound", which to me seems rather more dodgy than anything Cocorosie have sung. I suppose you could argue he's commenting on how as a white fan of black music, he's looked on with suspicion by some whites. Or maybe he's trying to tap into his idea of the blues idiom. Either way it's clumsy and troublesome, particuarly when you consider his idiotic comments at the time in the NME about poor blacks in the old south being "happier".

― Stew, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link

i've just had to listen to all three cocorosie albums (and while i don't hate them, i am REALLY struggling right now) and it's pretty clear that they just fetishise (many) stereotypes of blackness in a pretty dumb and superficial and ham-fisted way, and that they're not very interested in taking these thoughts much further (a pity).

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:45 (seventeen years ago) link

making a bizarre kind of sense:

Joss Stone: A Thread [Started by Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), last updated 1 minute ago] 8 new answers
Why does Europe love CocoRosie so much? [Started by tornup_andhurt, last updated 2 minutes ago] 94 new answers

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

the borderline-minstrel thing is tricky. tim buckley could pull it off. i saw devendra do a nina simone tune in drag once and he pulled that off too! maybe it helps if you are a white man channeling black women. or makes it more novel somehow. or just more gay, thus more endearing.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link

they do some well dodgy accents on their new album

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:27 (seventeen years ago) link

― stevie, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

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― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 17:05 (fifteen years ago) link

i like th look of some of th orchestra players faces in that dutch video

― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link

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