Dub / Reggae: An Idiot's Guide

Well that both those are stellar.

this free rhodesia tune, attributed to jack ruby & the black disciples, is a nice intro to his sound, imo. everything soaked in these mysterious-sounding horns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkKz5UGvzDk

i hope barrow's revived blood & fire label acquires the rights to, and reissues, all those otherwise-lost discs on the list above. many unavailable through the usual e-retail channels.

is junior byles still alive? i don't think he's been heard of since reappearing for some live performances around 2004 or so. sad story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xjhz4iifMI

this song is fantastic.

xp really? Most of the stuff was available on CD in some form so I'm surprised that it would be unavailable now.

i just spot-checked 10 -- 20 titles on itunes and boomkat (for mp3s only), so a very unscientific survey.

So much for the cornucopias of the digital age...

A few years ago (no less than 5), a Dub (or heavily Dub-influenced) track placed on the ILM yearly poll. Can someone remind me what it was?

I meant no MORE than 5 years

Nevermind, found it! :) It was "Welcome to Jamrock"

Good thing you did cuz I doubt most people would think of that track as being dub or dub influenced.

i was gonna say.

i like the track, tho.

Anything that samples "World-A-Music" is okay by me.

song's kinda fierce. it's been five years since that song; what happened to this guy?

waht? Take out the vocals and it's pure dub!!!

Anyway, was unaware of World-A-Music. Love it!

so i'm browsing some reggae music threads and notice this quote from shakey:

I have never really gotten my head around why Marley stands so far apart from the pack in the reggae genre - it's like he's not even a part of it, he was off in his own stratosphere of success, which seems to have functioned almost entirely independently of the rest of the Jamaican music scene in the 70s.

― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:57 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

last night my wife and i dug up this bob marley documentary on youtube ("caribbean nights" from the 80s i think) that i first saw as a teenager, and watching it in my life now after i've spent years listening to reggae, most of which is not bob marley (though i very much like marley, especially w/ tosh and bunny, there is a lot of reggae i like more), i was struck by the same thing and found it really curious.

i've been reading michael veal's dub book on and off for the past few weeks too, and he also mentions that as popular and loved marley was, there was a whole slew of other stuff that was more popular with local jamaican audiences. bob was just kind of separate and on some other kind of level

anyway, just a thought, realize this is primarily a dub thread and i don't meant to move it towards LEGEND territory

yeah that's still something I don't fully get. my current theory is that Blackwell had a lot to do with it.

highly idiosyncratic, but highly interesting, list of the best dub albums, as of 1977. here's the list:

Black Echoes Top 20:

King Tubby Meets The Upsetter At The Grass Roots Of Dub (Fay Music - LP/CD)
King Tubby Meets The Rockers Uptown (Clocktower - LP/CD)
King Tubby Meets The Agrovators At Dub Station (Live & Love - LP/CD)
Pick A Dub (Atra - LP/CD)
King Of The Dub Rock (Safari - LP/CD)
Dub From The Roots (Total Sounds - LP/CD)
Blackboard Jungle (Upsetter - LP/CD)
Satisfaction In Dub (Earthquake - LP only)
Vital Dub (Virgin - LP/CD)
Revolution Dub (Cactus - LP/CD)
Dub Festival (Third Wotld - LP only)
Ras Claat Dub (Grounation - LP only)
King Tubby's Vengeance (Prophets - LP only)
More Scrubbing The Dub (Crystal - LP only)
Out Of One Man Comes Many Dubs (Ethnic Fight - LP only)
King Tubby's Prophecy Of Dub (Prestige - LP/CD)
Randy's Dub (Impact - LP only)
Treasure Dub (Treasure Isle - LP/CD)
Dub Serial (Joe Gibbs - LP only)
Dub In Blood (Sunshot - LP only)

Black Echoes Best Of The Rest:

This Is Augustus Pablo (Tropical - LP/CD)
King Tubby Surrounded By The Dreads At The National Arena (Fay Music - LP/CD)
Tribesman Assault (City Line - LP/CD)
Brand (Brand - LP/CD)
African Dub (Joe Gibbs - LP/CD)
Natty Locks Dub (Fay Music - LP only)
Dubbing With The Observer (Attack - LP only)
Gun Court Dub (Love - LP only)
Scratch The Upsetter (Upsetter - LP only)
Batta Dub (Well Charge - LP only)
Contempo (Black Jade - LP only)
Music Explosion (Ethnic Fight - LP only)
Thriller (Nationwide - LP only)
Dub Basket (Cactus - LP/CD)
The Message Dubwise (Melodisc - LP only)

The following are in no particular order of merit, but No's 36-70 are all regarded to be a fair selection of Dub goodies, whilst 71 onwards are merely worthwhile.

Tradition Style Dub (B.P.I. - LP only)
Ital Dub (Trojan - LP/CD)
Dread Locks Dread (Klik - LP only)
Dub Up Tenement Yard (Observer - LP only)
Medley Dub (High Note - LP only)
Creation Of Dub (Total Sounds - LP only)
Scrub A Dub (Crystal - LP only)
Rebel Dub (Third World - LP only)
Aquarius Dub (Aquarius - LP only)
Dub Sensation (Soundtracks - LP only)
King Tubby Presents Roots Of Dub (Grounation - LP only)
Sledge Hammer (Observer - LP/CD)
Sir Collins Music Wheel (Nice One - LP only)
Ganja (Harry J - LP only)
Kung Fu Meets The Dragon (DIP - LP/CD)
Dub I (Micron - LP only)
Herbs Of Dub (Micron - LP only)
African Dub Chapter Two (Joe Gibbs - LP/CD)
ABC Dub (Penetrate - LP only)
Rhythm Shower (Upsetter - LP only)
Dub Store Special (Studio One - LP only)
Satta Dub Strictly Roots (Well Charge - LP only)
Agrovators Meet Revolutionaries At Channel One (Third World - LP/CD)
Pleasure Dub (Treasure Isle - LP/CD)
Cookin' (Horse - LP only)
Everlasting Dub (High Note - LP only)
Rasta Dub '76 (Grounation - LP only)
Bionic Dub (Forward - LP only)
Hi Fashion Dub Top Ten (Studio One - LP only)
Return Of Wax (Upsetter - LP/CD)
Earthquake Dub (Joe Gibbs - LP/CD)
Sample Dub (Winro - LP only)
Harder Shade Of Black (Santic - LP/CD)
Prophets Bootleg Dub (White label - LP only)
Yamaha Skank At Dr. Satans Echo Chamber (Underworld - LP/CD)
Chant Down Babylon Kingdom (Nationwide - LP/CD)
Strictly Rockers Ina Dread Land (Live & Love - LP only)
Better Dub (Studio One - LP only)
Revolutionaries Sounds (Well Charge - LP/CD)
A Who Seh? Go Deh! (Rama - LP only)
Jah Jah Dub (Harry J - LP only)
Zodiac Sounds (Forwad - LP only)
Aquarius Dub Vol. 2 (Aquarius - LP only)
Garvey's Ghost Dub (Wolf - LP only)
Morris On Dub (Harry J - LP only)
King Tubby Meets Harry Mudie In Dub Conference (Moodisc - LP/CD)
Roots Dub (Winro - LP only)
Ital Talk (Jigsaw - LP only)
Dreadlocks In Jamaica (Live & Love - LP only)
Money Maker Dub (Studio One - LP only)
More Dub (Joe Gibbs - LP only)
Bag-O-Wire (Klik - LP only)
Revival Dub (Well Charge - LP only)
Straight To Babylon Chest (Live & Love - LP only)
Soul Revolution Pt. 3 (Upsetter - LP only)
Ital Dub (Studio One - LP/CD)
Treasure Dub Vol. 2 (Treasure Isle - LP/CD)
Fighting Dub (Love - LP only)
Reggae Confusion (Third World - LP only)
BB Seaton's Revolutionary Dub (Trenchtown - LP only)
Shalom Dub (Klik - LP/CD)
Leggo! Ah Fe We Dis (Rama - LP only)
Tapper Zukie In Dub (Stars - LP/CD)
Dub Basket Chapter Two (Cactus - LP/CD)
Zion Hill Dub (Terminal - LP only)
Ital Sounds And System (Studio One - LP only)
Collie Dub (Jigsaw - LP only)
Scientific Higher Rankin' Dub (Rama - LP only)
State Of Emergency (Joe Gibbs - LP/CD)
Sir Collins In Session (Nice One - LP only)
Mellow Dub (Studio One - LP only)
Reggae Confusion Vol. 2 (Third World - LP only)
Twelve Tribes Of Israel (Lucky - LP only)
Johnny Clarke Disco Dub (justice - LP only)
Ja-Man Dub (Ja-Man - LP/CD)
Can't Conquer Rasta (Justice - LP only)
Cloak And Dagger (Trojan - LP only)
Dub Me (Mor-Well - LP/CD)
Reggae Bones (Upsetter - LP only)
African Dub Chapter Three (Joe Gibbs - LP/CD)
Tommy McCook Instrumental (Justice - LP only)
Rasta Dub '77 (Micron - LP only)
Concrete Dub (Concrete Jungle - LP only)
Instrumental Explosion (Diamond - LP only)
Wareika Dub (Ghetto Rockers - LP/CD)
Musical Dub (Virgin - LP only)
Presenting Coxsone Affair (Tribes - LP only)
Step Forward Youth (Live & Love - LP only)
Entering The Dragon (Magnet - LP/CD)
Ranking Dillinger In Dub (Jackpot - LP only)

Note: The record labels mentioned are from the initial LP releases. Those that got a re-issue on CD, although sometimes not in their original form i.e. different tracklisting and eventually with bonus tracks, are indicated for your convenience.

used but perfect copy of dub landing has arrived. psyched! this stuff has been hitting my sweet spot lately.....

Not sure what's so complicated about the Marley thing. The music and production (esp. once they got to Island) was largely out of step with what was going in Jamaica (a fact which might have concerned them except for the fact that they were HUGELY successful everywhere else). For a culture that is largely driven by seven inches and the sound system it's not remotely surprising to me that the Wailers who were not at all about either (esp. by the point that of their greatest international renown) wouldn't have much impact (aside from the odd cover) on the rest of the island.

Should clarify: much impact musically. OBVIOUSLY their success had a huge impact in terms of interest in Jamaican music.

i just found marley fans off-putting in college. eagles fans, too, for that matter.

Everyone did.

I was reading more in Veal's book Dub: Soundscapes and Shattered Songs in Jamaican Reggae, the separation between Marley and local Jamaican reggae was obviously there but it's not quite as simple as that. I thought these were some interesting passages that address some of the separation:

Along with Jimmy Cliff's soundtrack for Perry Henzell's film 'The Harder They Come,' Marley's 'Catch A Fire,' 'Burnin,'' 'Natty Dread,' and 'Rastaman Vibration' albums were more responsible than any other for stamping Jamaican music authoritatively on the map of world popular music.

Of course, it has recently become fashionable among reggae historians to emphasize Marley's distance from Jamaica's sound system culture, in order to prove their own knowledge of the full breadth of Jamaican music. This claim is partially justified; Marley's music and image have been disproportionately promoted as the heart and soul of reggae music, leadning to the disreaged of scores of talented Jamaican artists who remain virtually unknown outside of the country. But only partially: Marley's post-Lee Perry music might not have sold in as large quantities in Jamaica as it did internationally, but the Wailers composed many popular riddims during their Island years (1972-1981), a number of which were recorded by other artists, and which eventually entered the canon of generic riddims.

The truth of the matter is that Marley's music for Island Records broke new ground, and in no way so much as in the recorded sound of the music. The mixing of Marley's music dramatized his position at the forefront of Jamaica's musical and cultural vanguard, while simultaneously proclaiming Jamaica's important cultural presence in the postcolonial world order. The aggressive basslines of Aston Barrett were as tough as anything produced in Jamaica, and rank among the most celebrated riddims of the roots era. The interplay of Carlton Barrett's drum set and Bunny Wailer and/or Seeco Patterson's Nyabinghi-influenced hand percussion work brought a thick African underton to the music.

What set Marley's music apart was the clean, precise way in which the rhythm tracks were recorded, calculated to make them attractive to the international audience. This was a significant departure from the distorted, drum & bass orientation of most dancehall-oriented reggae. Comparison of Marley's recordings with cover versions of the his songs by other Jamaican artists demonstrates the specific choices that were made in the production of his music.

there's a type in the second paragraph - "disreaged" should be "disregard" obviously

Sorry I don't buy the argument he's putting forth. I don't see the Island recordings as being terribly innovative (esp. given the almost mind-boggling quality of the dub/roots productions of that period or particularly influential on JA recordings (at certainly not much more so than many other influences of the period). I also don't believe any of the Marley Island riddims are among the most versioned.

WANT this whole album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK1yx1NWsM4

shakey about your mixtape -- what places/albums did you pull that stuff from? just curious, it is all pretty great

is that info not in the MP3 ID tags...? Tracks are from the following:

Linval Thompson "Cool Down"
Trinity "Shanty Town Determination: 1976-1978"
Max Romeo "War Ina Babylon"
Prince Far I "Under Heavy Manners"
Yabby You "Chant Down Babylon Kingdom" (altho per discussion upthread there seem to be a lot of different names for this release)
Dr. Alimantado "Best Dressed Chicken in Town"
Jah Lion "Columbia Colly"
Prince Alla "Only Love Can Conquer: 1976-1979"
Jah Stitch "Dread ina Jamdown"
Big Youth "Dreadlocks Dread"
Keith Hudson "Rasta Communication"
Willie Williams "Armagideon Time"
I-Roy "Gussie Presenting I-Roy"
Prince Jazzbo and the Upsetters "Ital Corner"
Prince Far I "Livity"
Dillinger "Top Ranking Dillinger"
Rod Taylor "Can't Stop Us Now" (this is a comp of Linval Thompson productions)

yeah, i've spun that comp shakey a few times.
good stuff.
ta muchly.

working on a vol 2 but it may be a bit

....

a bit what ..

the suspense ..

lol a bit = a little while
is all

YES
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-17xFbtWPoU8/ThzG9j7szRI/AAAAAAAAASQ/JMYPqeRaTvA/s400/final_judgement-jah_lloyd.jpg

Last Poets quote surprised me on this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BCgR8ix9QY

man, fellow idiots could not go wrong w/ this studio one rocksteady comp from this year

http://www.souljazzrecords.co.uk/releases/?id=35191

sweetly sublime

I have doubles of the silk screened Yabby You comp on Pressure Sounds from last year and the red, gold and green vinyl 10" box set for Blackboard Jungle if anybody wants to trade for some stuff.

this?

I almost just bought this yesterday... altho I dunno what I would have to trade, I don't have anything I wanna let go of lol

xp, to j. - i've seen that comp, was curious about it. i've been listening to the ironsides one a lot, it's really, really good: http://www.souljazzrecords.co.uk/releases/?id=30376

so are basically all the soul jazz studio one comps good? it seems like it. or are there any spottier ones i should avoid?

Yes, that's the Yabby You comp (Deeper Roots).

lol i heard that paul and linda mccartney had record some music at black ark, so i went searching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i81XhlC-bIc
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24057jQUwNM

xp, to j. - i've seen that comp, was curious about it. i've been listening to the ironsides one a lot, it's really, really good: http://www.souljazzrecords.co.uk/releases/?id=30376

omg thanking you marcos

just picked up this jack ruby comp

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/467/MI0002467607.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

and the club ska 67 comp

http://offbeatska.com/images/clubska67_cover.jpg

expecting great things.

I made another mixtape

awesome; thank you. when you have the time, greatly appreciate it if you'd list, here, the source materials for the songs. i've added almost all the source albums to my itunes "wish-list," and i'll likely do the same here.

i have a brilliant jack ruby compilation/reissue thing - 'jack ruby hi-fi'

the album is basically 4 * 10 minute tracks.