Rolling Marvel Cinematic Universe thread (+ a poll: Classic or Dud?)

I was thinking about this earlier, how it's a small miracle that by and large these movies are not terrible. Things they have to contend with:

1) decades of comic stories/mythology/continuity
2) several interlocking films and their shared mythology/continuity
3) The devil's bargain that is Hollywood blockbuster filmmaking
4) the prospect of several more films continuing plots/characters set in motion
5) A hunk of major characters owned or permanently leased or however it works to other studios
6) Hyper-nerd, detail-minded fans who, who knows, maybe could kill one of these movies, if they could resist.

That's a lot of juggling to do, a lot of constraints. The addition of Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch to the next Avengers as (maybe? likely?) non-mutants in a world without Magneto and/or mutants, might be the biggest muddling yet to the canon, which ironically, in the name of convenience, could make things even more convoluted.

Is there really a Doop series in the making, or was that a joke? Because I would so watch it, especially if all of his lines were incomprehensible.

Marvel wouldn't have the rights to Doop anyway seeing as he's a mutant

Speaking of Howard The Duck, there is quite a few screen DC and Marvel properties that nobody talks about anymore... Nick Fury (Hasselhoff), 90s Fantastic Four (I think this was filmed without the creators knowing it was never going to be released but I'm sure it was eventually released), an old cheap Dr Strange film, 70s Spiderman, Japanese Spiderman, Supergirl, Swamp Thing on tv and film, Man-Thing, I'm sure there is more (animation doesn't count)

Those all take place in different, stand-alone universes.

The addition of Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch to the next Avengers as (maybe? likely?) non-mutants in a world without Magneto and/or mutants, might be the biggest muddling yet to the canon

IIRC Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being mutants wasn't really a big thing for years after they debuted in The Avengers comic. This was before mutants became a hot commodity, so they weren't really connected to the X-Men, and even the fact that Magneto was their father was retcon that happened years after their introduction. I'd say even today they're still considered to be more "Avengers characters" than "mutant characters".

That's true, the Magneto reveal came later. Though of course Quicksilver is in the new X-Men movie, one assumes as a mutant.

Seriously, though, that's something I like about these things. All these characters have been drawn and written so many different people, over the years, in different ways, different titles, through different storylines, that it's kind of neat to see the movies approach them in a similarly constantly reinventing manner.

Also, the stinger at the end of Winter Soldier seemed to hint that in the movie universe they were genetically engineered by HYDRA, i.e. not the same sort of mutants as the X-Men.

(xpost)

I think that sometimes giving the hard-core fans what they want is often a terrible idea. You'd maybe get what is sometimes referred to as "jacking off over a longbox" (continuity fetishism). That has to be my favourite comics term I've heard. Another is "Swamp Thing envy" (people trying to redefine a character in a major way that doesn't just stop at fresh reinvention).

If one has to do these characters, I think reinvention is the best way to go but what "Swamp Thing envy" criticizes is calculated attempts at making the new interpretation becoming the dominant version or something looked on as an important version.

And to be honest, Scarlet Witch has one of the least feasibly "mutant" powers in the Marvel comics... It was her mutated genes that made he a magician?

It was only topped by Longshot's power: it was his genetical mutation that allowed him to always have luck on his side... Because that's what genes do.

Is there really a Doop series in the making, or was that a joke? Because I would so watch it, especially if all of his lines were incomprehensible.

In the past couple of months:
Black Widow
She-Hulk
Ghost Rider
Silver Surfer
Ms. Marvel (doesn't really count in the same way, I guess)
Iron Patriot
Punisher

Upcoming:
Elektra
Daredevil
Hulk

It was only topped by Longshot's power: it was his genetical mutation that allowed him to always have luck on his side... Because that's what genes do.

― Tuomas, Monday, April 7, 2014 3:54 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IRL, only the papercut of of a radioactive playing card.

re: kirby i read somewhere that the dolph lundgren he-man movie was a tribute to 4th world

I loved Howard the Duck when I was a kid, and saw it again much later and thought it was hilarious and awesome. I don't really understand the hate, it is quite possibly a better movie than Return of the Jedi.

The He-Man movie was great fun, but had pretty much NOTHING to do w the cartoon/toys and pretty much killed He-Man for me. It was a super entertaining late-era Star Wars ripoff tho.

Really looking forward to Dr. Strange. I loved the Avengers, but two of the members were basically just every day normal human spies. Give me more cosmic stuff and I'll be there (the military stuff in Iron Man and Captain America kinda keep me away from those movies).

in the new film about Jodorowsky's Dune, they make a quick (but convincing) argument that mobius' work on that failed film informed the look and feel of Masters of the Universe

I weep and yearn for a day when I can be excited by comics industry again.

You can’t get excited by an industry including Self Made Hero and Blank Slate and Nobrow and Oily and Retrofit and D&Q and Fanta and March and Hyperbole And A Half (never mind the printing quality, feel the bookstore penetration) and Study Group and Stephenson’s Image, and Dark Horse supporting full-colour Evan Dorkin and reviving Shaolin Cowboy, and Humanoids and Dunbier and Copra and Koyama and Floating World and Desert Island and TCAF and SPX and Thought Bubble and Octopus Pie and Smut Peddler and the Inkstuds tour and only four months since Picturebox published?

Are DC and Kirby's estate on good terms?

cf my Diane Nelson ref

um, what?

Rolling Marvel Cinematic Universe thread (+ a poll: Classic or Dud?)

I get you. Didn't know that, though I had heard that about Levitz.

There is certainly good stuff being published but I'm extremely jaded and fickle about comics but I don't think my relatively narrow taste is the problem. The fact that Fantagraphics were recently in trouble was some of the worst news ever. In recent years I did get into some great stuff (Frantisek Skala, Jeremy Bastian, Kentaro Miura, Carlos Nine, Dave Cooper, Patrick McEown, Jonny Negron, Nicolas Dr Crecy) but nothing has really blown me away in all aspects, in a long time. Always something good and interesting but rarely anything to get giddy about in the way that books, music, film and tv have several things a year to salivate over; the best you can usually hope for is some interesting drawings. Maybe if you can speak several languages and go around the world buying.

Really looking forward to Dr. Strange. I loved the Avengers, but two of the members were basically just every day normal human spies. Give me more cosmic stuff and I'll be there (the military stuff in Iron Man and Captain America kinda keep me away from those movies).

Joss Whedon has said this is one reason he wanted Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, because he realized the Avengers were dominated by "punchy powers."

That sounds good! One of the worst recent trends in superhero comics is the "superheroes act like soldiers/cops" macho vibe spearheaded by Bendis, and this seems to have bled into the movies as well. If I want to watch cops I'll watch a regular cop show, superhero stories should have cosmic shenanigans and weirdo characters.

Well Classic or Dud they making bank
http://www.slashfilm.com/marvel-cinematic-universe-box-office/

classic all around. best thing to happen to movies since wes anderson.

chris ware's hawkeye would be great as a silent movie directed by kathryn bigelow with nothing but a ragtime soundtrack and some tasteful explosions.

That sounds good! One of the worst recent trends in superhero comics is the "superheroes act like soldiers/cops" macho vibe spearheaded by Bendis, and this seems to have bled into the movies as well. If I want to watch cops I'll watch a regular cop show, superhero stories should have cosmic shenanigans and weirdo characters.

And why doesn’t Batman dance anymore? Remember the Batusi?

the hardboiled cop thing works for Batman (altho I thought the campy 60s series worked great too) but different characters are best suited to different approaches

Yeah, it might work for some characters, but I don't really care abot those characters (like Batman) anyway. But what Bendis and his followers did was to make pretty much all Marvel characters they touched into hard-boiled cops/soldiers, which I hated. Thankfully the worst days seem to be over (at least in comics), in the last few years titles like Avengers Academy or Young Avengers or Journey into Mystery have brought back the idealism and cosmic adventures and weirdo vibes, which I feel are much better suited for these characters.

Huh - I felt like Bendis made every character into snarky goofballs, like Spider-Man

I can't really imagine why someone would portray Captain America as a soldier.

I'd blame it more on Millar and the success of the Ultimates, but blame isn't the word I'd use.

can't imagine at all why the alter ego of a dude who was turned into a superhuman by the US Army via the Super-Soldier project would be portrayed like a soldier, nothing at all rings a bell.

And why doesn’t Batman dance anymore? Remember the Batusi?

― Your Favorite Album in the Cutout Bin, Thursday, April 10, 2014 12:53 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

apparently Mark Millar is performing the Whedon-style creative consultant role for Fox's forthcoming superhero movies. That's their big plan

http://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcRBYlopjEgakr7HC0_klBA27EPY1kmDLkuRbuExoTU2AvoEXX9P8g

http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/comment/%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BA-%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%BA-%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%B8-spiderman-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0-456605.png

I can't really imagine why someone would portray Captain America as a soldier.

I'd blame it more on Millar and the success of the Ultimates, but blame isn't the word I'd use.

― Your Favorite Album in the Cutout Bin, 10. huhtikuuta 2014 20:52

can't imagine at all why the alter ego of a dude who was turned into a superhuman by the US Army via the Super-Soldier project would be portrayed like a soldier, nothing at all rings a bell.

― getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), 10. huhtikuuta 2014 20:58

Er, if you didn't notice it, I wasn't talking just about Captain America, but Avengers in general... And it isn't just portraying Captain America as a soldier (which has been done before Bendis, though some writers have also distanced him from that), but this all hard-boiled superheroes-as-paramilitary-experts, which was popularized by Bendis - and yes, by Millar too. Many writers have used Cap as the leader of Avengers in the past without the Avengers becoming all macho.

But Bendis quite specifically tore apart the whole concept of Avengers (in Disassembled) just so he could remake them in the hard-boiled style he favours. And I'm not saying there's a room for a superhero book like this, but the influence of Bendis and Millar was felt all across Marvel comics at this time, with the cosmic superheroes like Guardians of the Galaxy being the main exception. (Because of this, GotG was pretty much the best Marvel title around that time, so it's kinda ironic that now Bendis has taken over it and made into a macho comic too.) So it was kinda overwhelming, and depressing for those of us who don't particularly care for this kind of superhero writing.

And the influence of Bendis and Millar and co. has definitely bled into the movies as well. Take Hawkeye, for example: in the main Marvel universe he was an anti-authoritarian, tricksterish former criminal, which made him into a nice foil for Cap. But the movies have taken their cue from the Ultimates, where's his just this super-professional company man, i.e. a much more boring and generic action movie hero.

"DO YOU THINK THIS A STANDS FOR FINLAND?"

Take Hawkeye, for example: in the main Marvel universe he was an anti-authoritarian, tricksterish former criminal, which made him into a nice foil for Cap. But the movies have taken their cue from the Ultimates, where's his just this super-professional company man, i.e. a much more boring and generic action movie hero.

To be fair, Hawkeye spent most of The Avengers under Loki's control, and only regained his mind just in time for the all-action finale where there wasn't really much time to dig into his backstory. From what I've read about Age of Ultron so far, it looks like Whedon plans to put more of a focus on the characters that don't have their own movies, so we may yet find out that there's more to Hawkeye than we say in The Avengers (Pizza Dog cameo ftw!)

Renner seems like a pretty boring dude tbh

Yeah, I guess it's still possible to make Hawkeye interesting, but given that he's so obviously based on the Ultimates version and not the main Marvel universe one, I'm not so sure it'll actually happen. I doubt he'll be revealed to be a ex-carny or anything like that...

And I'm not saying the movie characters need to be exactly like their comic counterparts, just that most of the changes they've done have made them more generic and boring than in the comics. (Except for Tony Stark, but that's mostly due to Robert Downey Jr.'s performance.)

It's partly that paradox I pointed out: they've got decades of mythology to juggle and fans to appease, but also, like, the rest of the living world to appeal to, so there's a limit to how deep these movies can go.

Frankly, unless it's happened, I'm surprised there hasn't been a must-read fill-in-the-gaps comic book tie-in with the movies. If not, seems like a missed opportunity to drag people over or back over to the books.

Are they still doing comic book adaptations of comic book movies?

Don't miss this Avengers Assemble novelisation, which apparently stars "Nick Furry".

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13615968-avengers

TS: X-Men: Days of Future Past Quicksilver (top) vs. Agengers: Age of Ultron Quicksilver (bottom)

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--aevHfQoV--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/md4j6rcceqfqsdhqslnj.jpg

http://cdn01.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2014/03/elizabeth-olsen-aaron-taylor-johnson-more-action-packed-avengers-2-pics.jpg

Tuomas complaining about that Scarlet Witch costume in 3, 2...

Frankly, unless it's happened, I'm surprised there hasn't been a must-read fill-in-the-gaps comic book tie-in with the movies.

How can this surprise you after the last 13-odd years of Marvel tying in their publishing program with film releases

Because I don't read comic books anymore? And, from that vantage, I haven't felt any compulsion to check? I mean, I don't watch Agents of SHIELD, either, but I know the last ep tied in directly to Captain America 2. I realize the comics and movies sort of occupy the same plane, as it were, but my surprise is that, in the credits to Iron Man 3 or Avengers or Thor 2 or something - even a press release - there's not a direct, well, directive to pick up the current comic. Unless it's just implicit. But if they announced issues such and such of whatever title lay some groundwork for Avengers 2, wouldn't they get a reader bump?

Then again, Agents of SHIELD tie-in to Cap'n was apparently the show's ratings low.