DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era

yeah, but it be "nooh they b takin my votes"

zizek was pretty poor on newsnight last night. I didn't even hear what the third ideal sort of europe that was supposed to be battling for supremacy was, besides the technocratic efficiency one & the xenophobic anxiety one. I'm unclear what the limitations of the former are supposed to be other than the fact it takes global capitalism as a given.

I thought the most rational reason not to be involved in Europe was down to centralisation and preferring to let things be run on a more localised basis, non?

i don't think the size of a political community need have a direct correlation to its centralizing tendencies, there's no reason in principle why the EU can't devolve more powers to its regions than the UK parliament does.

Germany and the US being two examples of states that are properly federalised, of course

I know the term "United States of Europe" is usually brought up as a strawman but it's pretty much what I would like to see.

There's an interesting / impassioned piece in the LRB this week that focuses on the EU and its role in shaping the political scenarios being played out in Italy and Greece at the moment.

The collapse of the Papandreou government ("we're going to have a referendum on austerity" "oh, no you're not") being a prime example of how the will of governments can be railroaded.

I think we have a tendency to view American neoliberal economists as radical ideologues but European ones as broadly benign technocrats, which is just kidding ourselves really.

tbf most of those American economists are either expat Europeans or stans of same

I don't think zizek would argue for devolution or decentralization per se. I suppose you could argue for more serious devolution of powers on a democratic basis - there are issues of representation at different levels - but I can't see how westminster is any better than brussels in this sense except in raw scale. if ppl are in favour of breaking up the UK on those democratic grounds then I can understand their opposition to the EU, good luck to the people's republic of yorkshire &c., but that's not most sceptics' position.

I don't really buy the idea that smaller is better wrt democracy, I agree w/ NV about the lack of necessary correlation between size¢ralization, & I have some faith (or at least interest) in the idea of habermas-style democracy separated from/going beyond the state. large scale democratic projects seem as good a way of structuring the world at a supranational level as we've got. zizek seems to be in favour of european values ~in general~ at the global level but not the EU & mb not democracy, I can't tell.

xxp that's Perry Anderson at his best IMO.

it seems to me that now more than ever there are issues best governed at a global level and then many tiers of potential decision-making below that, right down to individual neighbourhoods/parishes/whatever you like. i guess that's why i find the general nation-state vs EU argument a bit of a sideshow.

UKIP; staying classy, using war dead for anti EU propaganda

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoCH-JkIAAA1Jvz.jpg

Even if Greece hadn't accepted a bailout from the Eurozone, it could still have chosen to leave the Euro and unilaterally default on its debts, triggering a banking crisis that affected all of Europe and a lot of the rest of the world. Of course, the Eurozone could have bailed Greece out without imposing such obviously damaging austerity measures, or Greece could have taxed its population properly in the first place. Either way it's a myth that in an interconnected global financial system any major decision made by Greece's government *only* affects Greece.

The same goes for Britain, in general the idea of "national sovereignty" that a significant chunk of the right cling to no longer exists and there are negatives and positives to that. A left-wing anti-globalisation critique is if anything *more* consistent and rational than a right-wing one that's largely at odds with the principles of free trade that a lot of yer Farages otherwise claim to support. In the same way that the principles of free trade are at odds with restricting the free movement of people across international borders. All of this is much bigger than the EU.

well said.

this article seems pertinent to the discussion above re. Europe
http://www.thenation.com/article/179851/what-was-democracy?page=full#

Have to admire the gall of the BNP choosing "“Fighting Unsustainable Housing Because We Care”" as their slogan on the ballot paper.

#whyimvotingukip

enjoyed the crazy amounts of far-right parties on the ballot - BNP, Btitain First, UKIP. In something of a quandary because a friend of mine, who I figure was just Tory, voted BNP. Everyone here is military or ex-military, but still. Never been more disappointed in someone. Only one Left party, and that was No2EU, which isn't my scene,

15 candidates here. Hard to tell the difference between the jokers and the anti Europe right wingers.

Plus the BNP are barely a party anymore - if you want to e a fascist you can do it much more efficiently.

xp Also, the ballot paper here was the same width as a toilet roll. Would have made for an interesting 'spoilt ballot'.

funny you say

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/05/21/stop-that-21/

^ our local anti-choice fuckdog candidate

i am having this weird difficulty understanding stats today, i keep seeing tables showing the Labour party (whatever that is) winning more local council seats than anybody else, but right next to these tables there's a load of headlines about how UKIP have destroyed all other political parties and are the runaway success story of yesterday's elections

that's before i ponder what any of this has to do with the business of running local government

It feels like the "UKIP fox is in the Westminster hen house", Nigel Farage has told reporters, after his party won large gains in England's local elections

i mean okay, i know, meaningless fucking farce to lull idiots into a sense of participation, but they're not even pretending any more, this was a vote about WHO PEOPLE WANT TO FIX THEIR FUCKING PAVEMENTS FFS

i am having this weird difficulty understanding stats today, i keep seeing tables showing the Labour party (whatever that is) winning more local council seats than anybody else, but right next to these tables there's a load of headlines about how UKIP have destroyed all other political parties and are the runaway success story of yesterday's elections

glad i'm not the only one perplexed by this.

in the absence of anyone in media caring about the European and local arenas as anything other than midterm reports on real politics this is what you get imo

well yeah precisely, the gamification(?), showbizification(?) of the serious business of making real serious decisions about how the country is governed isn't even pretending to be anything other than sports entertainment for misanthrope spods now

Labour and UKIP have added roughly the same number of seats so far. The idea is that at this stage, with an unpopular government, Labour should be doing much better than they are but their gains are being limited by councils moving from Tory to No Overall Control, partly thanks to UKIP, rather than from Tory to Labour.

But obviously they wouldn't have been able to do this well had the press not dedicated as much time to Farage as every other leader put together.

the stats on the ground are out of all proportion to the tone of some of the headlines, including the BBC's earlier today

a quick Google now looks like a degree of reining back is happening

the local government system is beyond fucked imo

After all that hype, the Lib Dems have ended up with more council seats than Uk*p. All that Farrago hype and hogwash has not worked. So why are the media pretending that it has? Didn’t they learn anything from what happened with Mitt Romney in 2012?

It really does make me feel as if there should be a ten-year moratorium on newspapers and “news” in all forms of media because they are distorting the society in which we are expected to live. I am seriously contemplating whether I should continue living in a country which supposedly doesn’t want me in it. That’s all I hear from the radio, the TV; “foreigners coming in.” And yet this doesn’t remotely relate to what is actually happening. But it distorts the way people are regarded and treated.

Is this always going to be the way with the media – the squeakiest wheel gets the oil, a Good Fucking Story until humanity is wiped out, all that’s worthy of being said is fucking clickbait? Because it’s wearying and stressful, and I need neither of these things in my life. Unless the media really is only run by rich ultra-right wing fuckwits who just want everywhere to be North Korea forever.

xpost yeah, even the guardian's reporting a big backlash against miliband, but the stats say otherwise. Ukip aren't even doing that well. And Greens are gaining a little bit of ground it's nice to see.

I had the same reaction this morning - obviously depressing UKIP have gained so many seats, but it's not that many compared to the hype. My borough's results aren't in yet but neighbouring boroughs all have swings to Labour, Haringey gave the Lib Dems a massive kicking.

OK, Uk*p might do a little better in the Euro elections but tbh I can’t see them getting a landslide of votes, certainly nowhere near as many as they were expecting.

Is this always going to be the way with the media – the squeakiest wheel gets the oil, a Good Fucking Story until humanity is wiped out, all that’s worthy of being said is fucking clickbait? Because it’s wearying and stressful, and I need neither of these things in my life. Unless the media really is only run by rich ultra-right wing fuckwits who just want everywhere to be North Korea forever.

yes.

even the guardian's reporting a big backlash against miliband

'even' the guardian seems wrong there- guardian is usually the first to try and undermine Miliband- all the main politics journos there are hardcore Blairite ultras. Also partly why they run with the opinion polling firm that consistently produces labour poll ratings lower than elsewhere.

They're also responding to the Times story (gee, why would a NewsInt paper want to do down Miliband?!?) so it's meta bullshit.

There is a larger group of people dissatisfied with the two main parties who want things to head a little bit left of Labour '97-'10, not just Political Twitter, and this is not reflected in the coverage. Why, when there is rightward pressure/demagoguery, do we get this wall to wall coverage, but if the same thing is happening on the left eg Labour's fall in majority as the party headed to the right, it's NEVER explored?

I was expecting the Greens to do a little better this time, with a boost from disaffected LD and Labour voters, but there's no sign of that yet.

How much coverage do the Greens get? I mean, I voted for the one available Green councillor in Greenwich, but I'm special. Marcello OTM up there. Fuck the media

I also voted for the independent candidate without knowing anything about him, though, so maybe I shd be disregarded as lunatic

We only had 1 green as well. I voted for them, the Labour councillor who turned up to our street party last year and some random TUSC candidate cos sure why not.

i went green all the way this time. most of my friends who cared to tell me did so too. but yeah, the greens get seriously fuck all coverage, especially compared to Ukip and that seems massively unfair.

There is a story about how UKIP have gone from complete irrelevance in local politics - in 2011 they won 7 seats - but they did pretty well in last year's elections too (without a Euro vote to help their brand) so none of today's results should be that much of a surprise unless they win control of a council somewhere.

xxp I think we're both in Waltham Forest CP? I too voted for the single Green candidate plus a couple of the Labour guys. Labour have actually been fairly assiduous at canvassing etc. round my way.

Independent Hamsa Yusuf is an accountant and football coach. He says he can use his business knowledge to benefit of area #WRhustings
Independent Hamsa Yusuf says "no to council tax rises" and would invite experts to scrutinise council finances #WRhustings
Independent Hamsa Yusuf wants "pro-business environment" by easing parking rules and providing training #WRhustings
Independent Hamsa Yusuf wants more affordable housing and a "a new free bridge in our borough against time-wasting traffic" #WRhustings

lol ok I voted for this guy a priori because he was an independent candidate

could have been worse, I suppose. but voting for him AND the Greens is kinda oxymoronic :D

eh well. I voted Europeans Party in the Europe elections, so not like I'm taking any of it very seriously #allez

I liked the English Democrats strapline that said 'I am English, not British, not EUropean', which looked very much like a typo.

i couldn't vote for them, their policy on the deposition of Richard II was a joke

Yep Neil. High St ward. There's been a lot of allegations of corruption and exploitation (he is apparently a slumlord) around one of the Labour councillors in my ward but I haven't heard anything bad about the one I voted for, apart from the fact she's done nothing about the corrupt one I guess.

John Harris is enjoying himself:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/23/ukip-success-local-elections-two-party-system-crisis