Let's talk Dario Argento...

I just finished Opera and good lord what a corny, sloppy film!

I mean the kill scenes were OK enough but the plot had crater-sized holes, several of them, and the way the characters (and the actors) acted generally made no fucking sense. Also, dude gets his eye pecked out and is just like "eh whatever nbd"

"the plot had crater-sized holes" - welcome to gialli!
"the way the characters (and the actors) acted generally made no fucking sense" - welcome to gialli!

But no, I'm kind of ambivalent about Opera myself. I think there are some classic Argento set-pieces in there, but it's not as consistent as it could be. I also remember finding the kill scene soundtracking pretty rubbish, but apparently the soundtrack is by Eno and Simonetti, which should be great...

I dreamed I saw Argento's latest and it was, by some miracle, not the worst movie ever made. I think I'll keep that rather than watch the movie itself.

xp no but I liked "Deep Red" v much and I thought it was much more engaging and interesting and not as awful, same with "Bird with the Crystal Plumage"

Hey Eric:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssE_6DmL_dk

And Stevie, have you seen Tenebre or Phenomena yet?

Oh. My. God.

Rewatched Phenomena the Halloween before last and assigned it a slight downgrade, which was a bummer given it has a [spoiler]-wielding [spoiler] who comes to the rescue in the last minute.

Tenebre, tho, remains a f'n masterpiece.

xps no but this guy I rly like told me to watch both of them so

General consensus seems to be that OPERA was Argento's last great film, so I wldn't step much further into the wreckage of the last two decades, tho' STENDAHL SYNDROME and SLEEPLESS both have their moments/adherents. But Eric OTM abt Tenebrae.

There are other good ones, hell, other great ones, but really if you're new to Argento what you want is Suspiria - Profondo Rosso - Tenebrae. Can't fuck with those three.

Suspiria is the one everyone can love. Tenebre is the one that will let you know if you're all-in on Argento or if you should probably just get out while the getting's good.

I've seen Suspiria, Deep Red, and Bird with the Crystal Plumage (and now Opera)

Inferno a must-see, too. It's honestly kind of awful, but in between the lost-in-translation weirdness ("cake factory" wtf), bizarre setpieces (the hot dog guy) and sub-Goblin soundtrack, there are brilliant moments like the underwater ballroom and a big gooey chunk of Keith Emerson cheese during the climax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TchMJe9yCks

It's no Goblin/Simonetti, but it's like a distant cousin of Morricone's "Magic and Ecstasy"...

IS. Inferno IS a must-see. Movie good, watch with eyes, *grunt*

I actually love the Emerson score nearly as much as Goblin's for Suspiria.

So do i. It's my second favourite Argento film and the OTT synth-prog score definitely heightens the hysterical feel.

I love the synth oscillations at the first long-shot reveal of the Varelli building early on.

I put off sampling Argento this long on the grounds that I'm not a big horror/slasher watcher, but I finally gave Tenebre a whirl at a colleague's urging and, yeah, it's pretty terrific. I'm willing to subscribe to the "dream logic" reading of his films offered upthread; as a plot, the film makes very little sense and is filled with all sorts of "huh?!" moments even if you take it at face value (eg. why does a certain character even carry a fake knife?), so it is best to just read the whole thing as an elaborate and occasionally inexplicable (the doberman--wtf?) nightmare. Comparisons to De Palma are spot on--like "classic era" De Palma, Argento is clearly in love with filmmaking. The famous POV shot outside of the apartment building, for example; it makes no logical sense whatsoever, but it's just absolutely beautiful cinema, you know? Ditto the extended dream sequence on the beach--a lesser filmmaker would have used such a sequence purely for exposition (if they even used it at all), but Argento allows it to exist as this puzzling, erotic and eventually shocking little self-contained moment. A much smaller moment, when a character, leaving a room, pauses to offer a fleeting glance into...the empty room? the camera? the audience? was so startling and unexpected that I couldn't help rewinding the disc and watching the scene twice more.

So, what should be next? Deep Red? Suspiria? The Bird with the Crystal Plumage?

Deep Red is incredible

Deep Red is yr classic giallo. Suspiria and Inferno are more dreamlike. Watch them all!

And then eventually enjoy Opera, which is sort of the most crowd-pleasing synthesis of them all and undoubtedly the last great movie he made.

> So, what should be next? Deep Red? Suspiria? The Bird with the Crystal Plumage?

yes. all of those. they are probably Bird, Red, Suspiria in order of gore, with Suspiria being the bloodiest.

A friend of mine got Argento to sign her ass and she got it tattooed:

https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/q73/s480x480/10322816_1502965846600077_5402545247248236674_n.jpg

any one else prefers inferno over suspiria? i like how it jettisons plot and central character in favor of people just wandering around brightly colored sets and getting brutally murdered.

Difficult. Score obviously strong argument for Suspiria. In terms of setting Suspiria's Schwarzwald/Hofbräuhaus/Königsplatz/Munich backdrop also has a clear advantage over the rather nondescript location of the house (was it Rome?) in Inferno, even considering the beautiful underwater scene in the latter.
But iirc the showdown in Inferno is a rather hilariously bonkers and unexpectedly arriving letdown compared to the just dull letdown of a finish of Suspiria and the story up to this point has lost all coherence anyway and is more Horror Jazz than actual narrative, so yeah: Inferno.

It's NYC in Inferno- there's even a scene set (allegedly, anyway) in Central Park. Probably shot in Rome, of course, Cinecitta or somewhere.

it was actually filmed on location, mario bava did some special effects for that scene.

Inferno is prob the more effective movie overall - it really sustains that dreamlike mood throughout - while the last third of Suspiria is a bit baggy. But the opening twenty minutes or so of Suspiria has to be Argento's greatest work, a hysterical symphony of colour, music, performance, editing, decor, all of it pitched at maximum intensity.

For many years the cat-eating-rat shot in Inferno was censored, one of the BBFC's dumber animal cruelty cuts.

Just finished Tenebrae per Telephone Thing's recommendation.

All the things I picked apart Opera for up thread also ring true here but the difference is that Opera was a really boring film and Tenebrae was not.

I really do hate the dubbed dialogue, though. Like soooo much.

though "Turn it DOWN!!! RRGGHHHH *HUFF* *HUFF*" was p wonderful

Just a heads up: a very limited edition blu-ray of a restored Suspiria is up for preorder as of today, and if the response is any indicator it won't be available for long (as I keep learning the hard way with these limited edition releases). It looks pretty fantastic (screenshots behind the link):

http://synapse-films.com/news/suspiria-comparison-pictures/

^ region 1

I’ve been working my way through Argento, have seen Deep Red, Suspiria, Inferno, and Tenebrae so far. Suspiria is my favorite, but I only watched it after seeing Guadagnino’s version, which I also really loved, even more I think. They are related but are very different films

Deep Red was so great. Tenebrae kept me up at night.

i'm loving digging through these now

Deep Red just really makes me appreciate how good his visuals are. the entire scene of chiseling open the hidden window at the abandoned house and the reveal of the artwork on the wall in the house and it's sudden reveal of a missing piece are marvelous.

I enjoyed Bird with the Crystal Plumage. excellent framing, not quite the heights of Deep Red, and a few draggy bits, but....whoknew I liked giallo after all

Phenomena is so awesome. I love how Jennifer Connelly manages to clean all the maggots and bile off her with that one errant fresh water pipe. All the stuff with the "infinite doorway visions" toward the beginning were incredible.

is Creepers different enough to be worth watching?

that film had real potential, but I couldn't get past the bad acting

referring to Phenomena

I didn't hate Phenomena, but I watched it with an astute friend who thought it was entertaining but awful, and that affected my opinion.

I most liked Suspiria and Deep Red. Tenebrae and Inferno were also interesting but not as good.

There were diminishing returns for me after that

This is not about Argento but there's no all-purpose giallo thread:

I LOVE Italian genre cinema of the 60's and 70's. Love the politics, clothes, design, the anything goes vibe and of course the soundtracks.

However, I am no good at dealing with gore and particularly violence against women in films, so have ignored the giallo genre while delving deep into spaghetti western and poliziotteschi.

So my question is, anyone know of any good efforts in the genre that lean more towards mystery or (even better) conspiracy thriller rather than the gore/horror side?

You might well favour the adjacent Poliziotteschi genre - essentially, Italian cop thrillers of the 1970s. These movies share some of the same DNA with Giallo - including not only a similar sense of seventies style but also, it has to be admitted, some fairly unreconstructed sexual politics and brutal violence - but with a greater emphasis on crime, corruption and politics (again, often of a pretty reactionary, all crims are scum kind). Some of Morricone's best 70s soundtrack work was done for Poliziotteschi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliziotteschi

I've watched tons of poliziotteschi, as per the previous post. :) "Milano Calibro 9" (smart) and "Street Law" (stoopid) are my faves.

Oops yes.

Saw him tonight introducing The Bird with the Crystal Plumage at Lincoln Center. It really is quite impressive as a first feature. The editing, which he hand-waved away in the Q&A (basically saying he edits when he shoots), is remarkably tight and good. Few if any contemporary directors would have the courage to edit like that. Was also struck for the first time by the humor in his writing… something that a large audience reminds you of when you hear the laughter in the room.