Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

man, it's like that character from Shock Corridor
http://aaldef.org/blog/elliot-rodgers-manifesto-shows-self-hate-fueled-anti-asian-violence-that-kicked-off-isla-vista-rampa.html

龜, I noticed that as well after reading some stuff he had posted on the puahate cesspool

― the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, May 26, 2014

not just rodger. racism, misogyny, and implied and open threats of violence run through everything i saw yesterday on the cached pages of this site. apparently there are more of these online communities? so weird. the people who post there have exactly the same attitudes -- even worse, actually -- as the "alpha males" they hate for being "not nice-guys."

that's an interesting idea. "alpha male" represents the apex of their own personal ideals, and "betas" are those who fail at fulfilling them. the "nice guy" thing could be a submissive posture in line with their dominantation-oriented/abusive worldview when they see themselves as failing to fulfill their ideals, yet gives them a sense of power and superiority out of feeling hopeless to become their "alpha" ideal. and it does nothing to change or modify their fundamental belief system because it's just a part of it.

this seems like some sorta bizarre, masochistic, self-hating, woman-hating, sex-obsessed, narcissistic cult. no surprise a mass shooter comes out of this worldview, what an absolutely god awful way to think about life (at least how my amateur psychology chin scratching puts it).

it's also this weird fucked up worldview where the only place he can find happiness is in the world of this fantasy place of "hot sorority girls" and winning the approval of alpha males.

not sure if "winning the approval of alpha males" is an express goal, but they do seem in awe of "alpha males," and there sure is a lot of sexual subtext in the posts on that board.

the whole thing plays into topics covered on another ilx thread ("marketing of masculinity," iirc). these attitudes about "alpha males" and basic-traits of masculinity get peddled by the mainstream media, too. this thread made me remember an old article by peggy noonan, just after 09.11.01, celebrating the return of manly men. they might have to drag peggy noonan away from the golf club martini bar to write her columns, but she does shape attitudes from her media platform.

Like other kinds of hatred that are already in the air we breathe, misogyny is a force that will fill any available vessel

this ^^^^
i feel like undercurrents of misogyny run through nearly all communities online and offline. i used to like internet forums better than communicating in real life because my experience professionally & personally is that outside of safe spaces like classrooms with feminist professors, there are almost always dudes who talk over me and don't listen to a word i'm saying, always. it wears me down and it becomes easier to just not talk much because of men who interrupt me, contradict me, play devil's advocate, start talking over me, or ignore what i said completely.

i feel like the first thing one can do to be against this misogyny is to talk to women with respect, listen to what women have to say, consider their point of view, take it seriously, don't jump in to talk over it, and don't immediately jump to tell them that it's invalid or argue the opposite just to argue. it's just subconscious and comes from the culture, i certainly notice it a lot even from men who are generally mature, decent, honest people and yet just can't help but respond to women as if they don't matter as much as men, except of course for the way they look. the mra/pua stuff i am hardly aware of & do not encounter in real life but what's very real is the subtle, constant dismissing and undermining that i experience in a misogynist culture. and the constant reminders everywhere that the #1 most important thing about women is how they look and whether men think they look attractive enough or not.

otmfm

well said, daria

thx

i was hanging out with several different groups of friends over the weekend & it was like.. wow everyone is nice and can hold a conversation and talks to me like i'm a person and no one is making crass comments about any women at all. why can't it be like this everywhere

totally

it's kinda fucked up that you are just supposed to 'deal with' all the rest of the shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8jVEfvemk

this made me cry. but i guess nothing will come of it; nothing changes anything, unfortunately.

someone should make sure obama sees it

Nope, in fact we can all predict exactly what the NRA stooges will say. If only one of the victims had been armed blah blah blah.

yes it might motivate him to finally press that delete the 2nd amendment and destroy congress button
xp

Then, of course, there was this bit of dumbshittery: Rap Genius Co-Founder Mahbod Moghadam Resigns After Annotating Santa Barbara Shooter Manifesto

Need to develop grassroots, state-by-state level support for repealing the 2nd amendment. Obama has no power on this issue.

yo did sarge take down rap genius bro

yurp

http://gawker.com/rap-genius-co-founders-creepy-comments-on-elliot-rodger-1581469310/+nitasha

awesome imo

not awesome imo

Need to develop grassroots, state-by-state level support for repealing the 2nd amendment. Obama has no power on this issue.

― Οὖτις, Monday, May 26, 2014 5:53 PM (46 minutes ago)

yup. left needs a serious, NRA-level, single-cause-w/-no-apologies organization dedicated to radical firearm opposition, including 2nd amdmnt repeal. as progressives, we all need to support it for political reasons, even if we're personally more moderate on the issue.

im not moderate on it at all, 2nd amendment should be repealed and all firearms should be confiscated, i aint give a fuck if your great great grandpappy had it in ww1

i feel like the first thing one can do to be against this misogyny is to talk to women with respect, listen to what women have to say, consider their point of view, take it seriously, don't jump in to talk over it, and don't immediately jump to tell them that it's invalid or argue the opposite just to argue. it's just subconscious and comes from the culture, i certainly notice it a lot even from men who are generally mature, decent, honest people and yet just can't help but respond to women as if they don't matter as much as men

This is totally OTM. When I was younger I definitely considered myself a decent person who was all for equality, but it wasn't until I started hanging with feminists and learning about the gendered power dynamics of social situations that I realized I was (subconsciously) doing this too. It's just so deeply ingrained in the socialization of (most) men that it takes some serious effort and self-analysis to unlearn, even for people who are generally supportive of gender equality.

not an expert on the US constitution at all but as I understand it the alternative to repeal of the 2nd amendment would be if the Supreme Court were to reinterpret the 2nd amendment as only applying to state militias. this would require a majority vote of the Supreme Court.

repealing the 2nd amendment would cause a frightening backlash from the right wing. not that this is a reason to not support the measure, mind you, it's just that the road to a gun-free america would be rough

xp Ain't no combination of justices on this Court that would even agree to hear another significant 2nd Amendment case, let alone reverse itself so quickly, this soon after Heller.

"Repealing the 2nd Amendment" falls somewhere on the scale of possible things at around "colonizing Mars" levels of ludicrousness. Even if this country didn't have a secular religion of Founder Worship, the uphill climb involved in convincing people to repeal part of the *gasp* Bill of Rights would make Mt. Everest look like a stroll through Central Park. Not that I don't want it repealed, but . . . I mean, OK, you have to convince a majority of the populations of Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Montana and Idaho to repeal it. What's your pitch?

i come to their house with lots of guns

then i point to them and im like
these are yucky and you are too if you like these
then im pretty sure they will give me their guns because i will be the government

daria's post upthread is excellent.

in a world where you could repeal the 2nd amendment, you basically wouldn't need to repeal the 2nd amendment

daria's post upthread is excellent.

― estela, Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:11 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

absolutely this.

we should not be focusing on the second amendment here. it's a side-issue, a canard. this is about how we cohere as a society, and how we enable destructive views to proliferate and gain momentum unchecked

this is very much about the 2nd amendment, or (if you prefer) how or even if gun ownership proliferation can be checked. maybe I'm just a simpleton but I like to focus on laws and practicalities. if this guy had not been able to buy guns he *might* not have done what he did. that makes it about the law.

part of the problem imo is ideological segregation. we live in neighborhoods + socialize w/ ppl who believe and think the same things as us. for good reason - bc it's pleasant to do so. but that means that affective communities can become totally closed systems w/ no outside input. it's not enough to be a stand for particular things in your already progressive, liberal community - stands need to be taken in uncomfortable places as well.

That's OTM, preaching to the choir is good at motivating the choir but not much else.

we should not be focusing on the second amendment here. it's a side-issue, a canard.

uh guns in america and the fact that this kid easily bought THREE legally purchased guns in not side issue

there are a lot of great discussions going on in this thread about misogyny and power dynamics and etc etc but gun control is incredibly important as an issue in the u.s.

i feel that i do my part because i am an educator -- this is part of my job, to help to create a culture of understanding where before there were differences. most of my students are female. in each of my classes this semester, there was one male student. the young one (prob about 18-19?) was super cool, never made a big deal about being the only guy, was generally chill and earnest and a good student. the older one (who was either my age or a little older) walked in on the first day and was like "WHOA a class of ALL WOMEN" (a direct quotation) and by the end of the semester, he admitted that he was intimidated and overreacted. one step at a time, ppl.

i've got hope for the future, at least.

Gun control is actually pretty popular, its just that there's no well organized well funded single issue national lobbying organization to counter the nra. This is whats required.

that said, i would be really glad if there were no guns
we've been talking a lot about "campus security" (which sounds like $$$ to administrators) whereas we should really be talking about safety, which is a basic human right.

in a world where you could repeal the 2nd amendment, you basically wouldn't need to repeal the 2nd amendment

― iatee, Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:18 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Gun control is actually pretty popular, its just that there's no well organized well funded single issue national lobbying organization to counter the nra. This is whats required.

nope the problem is that a. gun control actually isn't sufficiently popular b. our electoral system privileges rural interests

along w/ the bigger ideological gridlock problem which may or may not just be a short-term thing

bloomberg can spend as much money as the nra does or more. it won't do a thing.

also daria otm, esp about being talked over/not listened to/not taken seriously

Meanwhile, something's up with the spree shooting in Brussels on Saturday. Moving camera footage was released of an unrecognizable but clearly professional/trained shooter who calmly entered, took his machine gun, shot three people dead in the Jewish Museum in Brussels, and then calmly walked away again.

http://static1.hln.be/static/photo/2014/14/7/4/20140527164302/media_xll_6778264.jpg

Immediately, everyone (including Netanyahu, the Pope, the Belgian government, etc) attacked Europe's rising antisemitism that obviously must have caused this, but now it seems there may be more to the story. The two formerly innocent tourists who happened to be there by chance were both, Belgian media reports, based on a Haaretz article, linked to Israeli secret services. The woman worked for the Israeli prime minister and the husband was with her when they were in Berlin for "a mission" in the Israeli consulate.

Please link to the Haaretz report. The article I see says:

There was no practical reason for a hostile state like Iran or an enemy organization like Hezbollah to try and harm either Emanuel or Mira Riva – both former civil servants – at the Jewish Museum in Brussels. Both were accountants who were employed separately by government bodies. They had no substantive connection to the core issues of either Iran or Hezbollah; their tools were numbers and computers, not cloaks and daggers.

I don't see anything about them being on "a mission" in the Israeli consulate.

Haaretz is pretty fucking irresponsible tbh.

they still sound p innocent to me idk

Haaretz publishes sensationalistic/speculative stuff all the time - when they're not actively publishing incorrect facts + information.

Okay, apologies - only read the Belgian news site's article which looks deliberately vague now, indeed.

Still, the shooter doesn't look like an amateur/crazy madman - maybe the victims were wrongly identified as targets or something?

He could very well be a professional killer. Hezbollah has executed (and planned) attacks on Israeli civilians in a variety of countries. The professionalism of the shooter doesn't necessarily indicate that the targets were anything but convenient.

The shooting reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Cyprus_terrorist_plot

In the months preceding the disruption of the terrorist plot in Cyprus, Hezbollah and Iran were implicated in terrorist attacks and plots against Israeli targets in Thailand, India, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Kenya.[1] On July 18, eleven days after Yaakoub was arrested, five Israeli tourists and a Bulgarian citizen were killed in a suicide bombing in Burgas, Bulgaria. The Bulgarian government implicated Hezbollah in the attack.[2]

There may be a slight "move along, nothing to see here, everyone's safe, it's just secret spy stuff, you know what they're like" tone about the reporting here - before, it was all "(muslim?) terrorism - stay out of museums and jewish-themed places everywhere because we don't have a clue what's going on and everyone may be in danger".