Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

Need to develop grassroots, state-by-state level support for repealing the 2nd amendment. Obama has no power on this issue.

― Οὖτις, Monday, May 26, 2014 5:53 PM (46 minutes ago)

yup. left needs a serious, NRA-level, single-cause-w/-no-apologies organization dedicated to radical firearm opposition, including 2nd amdmnt repeal. as progressives, we all need to support it for political reasons, even if we're personally more moderate on the issue.

im not moderate on it at all, 2nd amendment should be repealed and all firearms should be confiscated, i aint give a fuck if your great great grandpappy had it in ww1

i feel like the first thing one can do to be against this misogyny is to talk to women with respect, listen to what women have to say, consider their point of view, take it seriously, don't jump in to talk over it, and don't immediately jump to tell them that it's invalid or argue the opposite just to argue. it's just subconscious and comes from the culture, i certainly notice it a lot even from men who are generally mature, decent, honest people and yet just can't help but respond to women as if they don't matter as much as men

This is totally OTM. When I was younger I definitely considered myself a decent person who was all for equality, but it wasn't until I started hanging with feminists and learning about the gendered power dynamics of social situations that I realized I was (subconsciously) doing this too. It's just so deeply ingrained in the socialization of (most) men that it takes some serious effort and self-analysis to unlearn, even for people who are generally supportive of gender equality.

not an expert on the US constitution at all but as I understand it the alternative to repeal of the 2nd amendment would be if the Supreme Court were to reinterpret the 2nd amendment as only applying to state militias. this would require a majority vote of the Supreme Court.

repealing the 2nd amendment would cause a frightening backlash from the right wing. not that this is a reason to not support the measure, mind you, it's just that the road to a gun-free america would be rough

xp Ain't no combination of justices on this Court that would even agree to hear another significant 2nd Amendment case, let alone reverse itself so quickly, this soon after Heller.

"Repealing the 2nd Amendment" falls somewhere on the scale of possible things at around "colonizing Mars" levels of ludicrousness. Even if this country didn't have a secular religion of Founder Worship, the uphill climb involved in convincing people to repeal part of the *gasp* Bill of Rights would make Mt. Everest look like a stroll through Central Park. Not that I don't want it repealed, but . . . I mean, OK, you have to convince a majority of the populations of Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Montana and Idaho to repeal it. What's your pitch?

i come to their house with lots of guns

then i point to them and im like
these are yucky and you are too if you like these
then im pretty sure they will give me their guns because i will be the government

daria's post upthread is excellent.

in a world where you could repeal the 2nd amendment, you basically wouldn't need to repeal the 2nd amendment

daria's post upthread is excellent.

― estela, Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:11 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

absolutely this.

we should not be focusing on the second amendment here. it's a side-issue, a canard. this is about how we cohere as a society, and how we enable destructive views to proliferate and gain momentum unchecked

this is very much about the 2nd amendment, or (if you prefer) how or even if gun ownership proliferation can be checked. maybe I'm just a simpleton but I like to focus on laws and practicalities. if this guy had not been able to buy guns he *might* not have done what he did. that makes it about the law.

part of the problem imo is ideological segregation. we live in neighborhoods + socialize w/ ppl who believe and think the same things as us. for good reason - bc it's pleasant to do so. but that means that affective communities can become totally closed systems w/ no outside input. it's not enough to be a stand for particular things in your already progressive, liberal community - stands need to be taken in uncomfortable places as well.

That's OTM, preaching to the choir is good at motivating the choir but not much else.

we should not be focusing on the second amendment here. it's a side-issue, a canard.

uh guns in america and the fact that this kid easily bought THREE legally purchased guns in not side issue

there are a lot of great discussions going on in this thread about misogyny and power dynamics and etc etc but gun control is incredibly important as an issue in the u.s.

i feel that i do my part because i am an educator -- this is part of my job, to help to create a culture of understanding where before there were differences. most of my students are female. in each of my classes this semester, there was one male student. the young one (prob about 18-19?) was super cool, never made a big deal about being the only guy, was generally chill and earnest and a good student. the older one (who was either my age or a little older) walked in on the first day and was like "WHOA a class of ALL WOMEN" (a direct quotation) and by the end of the semester, he admitted that he was intimidated and overreacted. one step at a time, ppl.

i've got hope for the future, at least.

Gun control is actually pretty popular, its just that there's no well organized well funded single issue national lobbying organization to counter the nra. This is whats required.

that said, i would be really glad if there were no guns
we've been talking a lot about "campus security" (which sounds like $$$ to administrators) whereas we should really be talking about safety, which is a basic human right.

in a world where you could repeal the 2nd amendment, you basically wouldn't need to repeal the 2nd amendment

― iatee, Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:18 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Gun control is actually pretty popular, its just that there's no well organized well funded single issue national lobbying organization to counter the nra. This is whats required.

nope the problem is that a. gun control actually isn't sufficiently popular b. our electoral system privileges rural interests

along w/ the bigger ideological gridlock problem which may or may not just be a short-term thing

bloomberg can spend as much money as the nra does or more. it won't do a thing.

also daria otm, esp about being talked over/not listened to/not taken seriously

Meanwhile, something's up with the spree shooting in Brussels on Saturday. Moving camera footage was released of an unrecognizable but clearly professional/trained shooter who calmly entered, took his machine gun, shot three people dead in the Jewish Museum in Brussels, and then calmly walked away again.

http://static1.hln.be/static/photo/2014/14/7/4/20140527164302/media_xll_6778264.jpg

Immediately, everyone (including Netanyahu, the Pope, the Belgian government, etc) attacked Europe's rising antisemitism that obviously must have caused this, but now it seems there may be more to the story. The two formerly innocent tourists who happened to be there by chance were both, Belgian media reports, based on a Haaretz article, linked to Israeli secret services. The woman worked for the Israeli prime minister and the husband was with her when they were in Berlin for "a mission" in the Israeli consulate.

Please link to the Haaretz report. The article I see says:

There was no practical reason for a hostile state like Iran or an enemy organization like Hezbollah to try and harm either Emanuel or Mira Riva – both former civil servants – at the Jewish Museum in Brussels. Both were accountants who were employed separately by government bodies. They had no substantive connection to the core issues of either Iran or Hezbollah; their tools were numbers and computers, not cloaks and daggers.

I don't see anything about them being on "a mission" in the Israeli consulate.

Haaretz is pretty fucking irresponsible tbh.

they still sound p innocent to me idk

Haaretz publishes sensationalistic/speculative stuff all the time - when they're not actively publishing incorrect facts + information.

Okay, apologies - only read the Belgian news site's article which looks deliberately vague now, indeed.

Still, the shooter doesn't look like an amateur/crazy madman - maybe the victims were wrongly identified as targets or something?

He could very well be a professional killer. Hezbollah has executed (and planned) attacks on Israeli civilians in a variety of countries. The professionalism of the shooter doesn't necessarily indicate that the targets were anything but convenient.

The shooting reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Cyprus_terrorist_plot

In the months preceding the disruption of the terrorist plot in Cyprus, Hezbollah and Iran were implicated in terrorist attacks and plots against Israeli targets in Thailand, India, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Kenya.[1] On July 18, eleven days after Yaakoub was arrested, five Israeli tourists and a Bulgarian citizen were killed in a suicide bombing in Burgas, Bulgaria. The Bulgarian government implicated Hezbollah in the attack.[2]

There may be a slight "move along, nothing to see here, everyone's safe, it's just secret spy stuff, you know what they're like" tone about the reporting here - before, it was all "(muslim?) terrorism - stay out of museums and jewish-themed places everywhere because we don't have a clue what's going on and everyone may be in danger".

Sounds like (some) Belgians find it hard to accept that something like this can happen there, so they're happy to grasp the "it was spy stuff all along, not anti-semitism" straw.

i doubt anybody really knows exactly what happened yet

there have been more than enough egregious crimes in belgium over the years

strangely enough someone was arrested over the unsolved brabant massacres only a couple of weeks ago

http://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_peut-on-dire-que-l-on-tient-l-un-des-tueurs-du-brabant?id=8270916

yeah, i wouldn't suggest that i know exactly what happened. just that the facts of the case - 2 tourists that have done accounting for the israeli government being shot by a pro in a jewish museum in brussels - is not enough to responsibly speculate about spies + espionage.

This dude otm

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/father-of-victim-in-santa-barbara-shootings-to-politicians-i-dont-care-about-your-sympathy/2014/05/27/8a030d10-e5ad-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html?tid=HP_more

gonna go buy some postcards

that guy otm.

Those truth bombs hurt so much, because a bunch of fuckers in this country all but guarantee nothing will come of this. Fuckers in Congress, fuckers in and around every (mostly empty and scary) state in this fucked up country, fuckers who elect the former to office and the fuckers who vote for them.

I'm fairly confident that current makeup of cali legislature will pass something. And we already have the strictest gun laws in the country. This is well shy of the larger more important goal, obviously, but still.

xp so otm and inspiring

I'm fairly confident that current makeup of cali legislature will pass something. And we already have the strictest gun laws in the country. This is well shy of the larger more important goal, obviously, but still.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 27, 2014 1:29 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they can pass something, but will it survive a court challenge is the question. look what happened in chicago.

also mr. martinez has a lot of courage and is very much otm.

Idk but lets find out.

^^^

I've said it elsewhere, but there is nothing more disheartening than going to my kids' elementary school and seeing a gun decal in the window with a little slash through it. Because, you know, not allowing guns in an elementary school is the exception, not the rule, right? See also: bookstores, playgrounds, restaurants and dozens of other places I pass every single day that remind me that the world is full of horrible, selfish assholes.

joe the plumber: "your dead kids don't trump my constitutional rights"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-ucsb-shooting-dead-kids

suck it libtards

The most amazing thing about that is that those are his actual words.

ah, the has-been/clickfarm symbiosis economy at work

dismissing rednecks doesn't make them go away. these are the thoughts of tens of millions of americans

I am sorry you lost your child. I myself have a son and daughter and the one thing I never want to go through, is what you are going through now. But:

As harsh as this sounds - your dead kids don't trump my Constitutional rights.

Richard Martinez, whose son (Christopher) was among the murdered, choked back tears at a news conference, blaming politicians the next day: "The talk about gun rights. What about Chris' right to live?" Martinez said - and much more.

There are no critical words for a grieving father. He can say whatever he wants and blame whoever he'd like - it's okay by me. You can't take a step in his shoes - at least I can't.

But the words and images of Mr. Martinez blaming "the proliferation of guns", lobbyists, politicians, etc.; will be exploited by gun-grab extremists as are all tragedies involving gun violence and the mentally ill by the anti-Second Amendment Left.

As a father, husband and a man, it is my responsibility to protect my family. I will stand up for that right vehemently. Please believe me, as a father I share your grief and I will pray for you and your family, as I do whenever I hear about senseless tragedies such as this.

We still have the Right to Bear Arms and I intend to continue to speak out for that right, and against those who would restrict it - even in the face of this horrible incident by this sad and insane individual. I almost said "Obama Voter" but I'm waiting for it to be official.

I noticed the mainstream media have stopped the practice of immediately reporting the psycho maniac is a conservative Tea Party Republican Christian. Guess they're sick of having to hide being wrong every time when it comes out the whacko votes Democrat?

Mr. Martinez and anyone calling for more restrictions on American's rights need to back off and stop playing into the hands of the folks who merely capitalize on these horrific events for their own political ends.

They don't care about your family or your dead children at all. They sound like they do, whereas I sound uncaring and like I say, harsh. Don't be fooled - I care about your family and mine. The future of our very liberty lies in the balance of this fight.

In conclusion, I cannot begin to imagine the pain you are going through, having had your child taken away from you. However, any feelings you have toward my rights being taken away from me, lose those.

the right to misuse apostrophes shall not be infringed!

I don't think he's called for the banning of guns, anyway

any gun legislation will be sold as "the banning of guns" though of course

They don't care about your family or your dead children at all. They sound like they do, whereas I sound uncaring and like I say, harsh. Don't be fooled - I care about your family and mine.

war is peace