MAD MEN on AMC - Seasons 7(a) & & 7(b)

xps
I never forget that fraudulent, contemptuous hug Joan gives Dawn after the King assassination. It was a cringeworthy moment, but a very well observed scene of insidious racism.

it's be hilarious if Harry somehow ended up at the top of the heap when this is all over.

what was the actual use of a computer to an advertising agency in 1969?

haha yeah I wondered about this too. crunching ratings and demographic stats, I would guess?

top of a heap of burger wrappers

My gf thought it would be hilarious if this was the last we see of SC&P and the final half season follows Megan as she navigates her Hollywood career.

what was the actual use of a computer to an advertising agency in 1969?

haha yeah I wondered about this too. crunching ratings and demographic stats, I would guess?

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:52 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, getting more out of consumer research/surveys i'd guess

keep in mind that those enormous computers in their offices probably aren't half as powerful as a desktop PC from 1980.

My gf thought it would be hilarious if this was the last we see of SC&P and the final half season follows Megan as she navigates her Hollywood career.

― schwantz, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

or follows the puerto rican boy and his working mom to their new house.

or just becomes somethign like "dobie gillis," but with sally draper

May 1969 story from Ad Age about how Cleveland agency Lang, Fisher & Stashower had sped up its processes:

http://adage.com/images/bin/image/computermediaok.jpg

"we can automatically make our data input during the night and have our answers back from the computer when we arrive at work the next day."

Pretty sure the main reason behind getting a computer in this case was to impress people, regardless of what it actually contributed. Why do you think they put it in that room with all the windows?

meanwhile i'm disappointed we'll presumably not get a chance to see lou avery get shitcanned.

― balls, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:11 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well we kinda did, him being told he was hired help was basically that

"would harry have voted don out or not" is a pretty interesting question!

no because he is a coward

when lou lost his shit he really reminded me of billy eichner's character in parks and rec

i thought that cutler was at one point scheming to bring lou on as a partner to replace don.

No, two year contract.

ya and when it didnt work out he's like fuck you bye

i have to admit that this show is tops in terms of limning tangled interrelationships among characters and giving them complex motivations

of course, when you last 7 seasons you can do that

yeah cutler shuts lou down there cuz lou is getting all 'my name is my name' but he doesn't fire him. it was pretty low level humiliation. i wanted to see him bleed, start answering to 'reek', etc.

lol yesss

that scene with cutler and lou really underscored how delightful these actors are in depicting assholes exhibiting prime asshole behavior

remember when pete was the no. 1 asshole on the show?

Seems like we could have a mad men assholes poll when this thing is all over.

Most of the characters in this swing between being brilliant and inept at their jobs and I just assume Harry is just boringly competent and probably responsible for a lot of their success but doesn't get the credit for it because he's such a weak character. A lot of offices have a Harry.

He's needy, emotionally and professionally and doesn't know how to hide it -- his bosses throw the ball for him just to see how far he'll run to get it

probably responsible for a lot of their success

there is literally nothing to base this conclusion on, idg why this keeps coming up except that people know that media buying is important and he is in charge of that and therefore if they are successful it must be because of their media buying strategy...? which sort of runs counter to what is actually shown on the show.

McCann hasn't been after Harry for 5 years. None of their press or awards or other industry recognition from outside of the firm has ever had anything to do with Harry.

Neither Lane nor Joan - the two people who follow the money - ever had any praise or recognition of Harry.

there is literally nothing to base this conclusion on, idg why this keeps coming up except that people know that media buying is important and he is in charge of that and therefore if they are successful it must be because of their media buying strategy...? which sort of runs counter to what is actually shown on the show.

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:44 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Here's the Thing: Media Buying for Television is going to explode in the '70s. Starting in late '68 with the folding of the weekly edition of The Saturday Evening Post, print media enters a gradual decline in importance. By '73, both Look and Life magazines have folded (although the former lives on various states up to today) as TV became a bigger moneymaker. And what print work there was became less important from a creative standpoint as clients began to stretch ad's runs (For example, say Chevrolet would go from commissioning 30 or 40 different ads quarterly to maybe 20-30 a year with many ads running for months on end in certain publications).

Ok but this show is not set in the 70s

of course, when you last 7 seasons you can do that

― display name changed. (amateurist)

shhh don't tell David Thomson

XP It'a long range reveal: Harry the schmuck is a visionary, and only Cutler sorta gets it.

I get that. What I am arguing against is that Harry has been historically invaluable to the firm, even though there is zero evidence for that on screen.

So awesome that Peggy got those account men to tear up a little with the intro to her pitch. Let's see a computer do THAT!

Leave us not forget: the best thing Harry ever did, non-professionally, was, when he discovered that his former colleague (who got left behind for McCann, when Sterling Cooper etc escaped the Brits' sale, and took some of the staff with them) was also in the clutches of an increasingly aggressive cult, and losing his mind---Harry talked the guy into taking his Star Trek drafts to Hollywood, and gave him a lot of money(if he still went crazy, at least he could go in style).

Agree that was his finest moment

"What I am arguing against is that Harry has been historically invaluable to the firm, even though there is zero evidence for that on screen."

Who has been "historically invaluable" to the firm based on the on screen evidence (even Don is ultimately replaceable as this season proves)? Everyone's vision of their own self-worth is either grossly inflated (Bert, Roger, Pete, Harry) or they've actually LEFT the firm for periods of time and it just marched on (Joan, Peggy, Ken).

Welcome to the machine

I get that. What I am arguing against is that Harry has been historically invaluable to the firm, even though there is zero evidence for that on screen.

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:12 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Let's put it another way: He created his own job title & department. Sure Joan could do it better, but only the two of them know that. In fact, since he set his own terms, it's highly likely nobody in the office quite understands his job, or that he can be replaced, He spends loads of time away from the office on the coast doing business, so he isn't under the microscope as much. And apparently when he's back he can pull a "Broadway Joe" rabbit out of the proverbial hat and save the day.

Also i think clients love him because he can make with the whores, aspiring actresses etc. on the quick.

I love that this clip is the first one that comes up when you search Harry on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z47MfkSHX44

only the two of them know that - i don't think either of them know it tbh! she was disappointed but not outraged cuz ultimately she buys into the patriarchy in ways that even peg (who's hardly a radical) doesn't.

Harry seems like one of the few somewhat forward looking people at SC&P (television department, computer) and I would guess that makes him valuable to the company. I'm sure he could be replaced, but he does seem to possess qualities which are lacking elsewhere in the main characters.

of course, when you last 7 seasons you can do that
― display name changed. (amateurist)
shhh don't tell David Thomson
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:07 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't get the reference. what did he say about Mad Men?

my favorite example of harry's fecklessness is when he and don are trying to get the rolling stones, and he gets high and eats all the white castle burgers he was supposed to bring home to his family.

there's not going to be any resolution explaining Harry "realistically." harry is a character who (a) has done things on the show that suggest he is forward-thinking (b) is typically portrayed on the same show as a bumbler and a lech and as profoundly uncharismatic.

yeah what good would he be if he were unlikable and incompetent? he would be lou, who couldn't last longer than a half-season.

always took harry to be this joke that he's sort of behind the scenes doing all the heavy lifting that makes the agency profitable but he's boring and unpalatable so we focus on these ineffectual show ponies with tortured inner lives. maybe that's a bit fanciful.

like Harry's away from all the drama, actually making money for them, while they strut around on the "tv" he makes possible. like a meta character.

v. generous reading, lol