Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

think you are misreading me

fwiw I do think it's sad that this recent thread revive has been dominated by exactly the kind of debate the NRA would like everyone to be having, i.e., in depth discussions of mental health issues/culture of violence etc instead of the actually centrally important issue, which is gun control. and then I make some offhand comments about how it would be maybe preferable if Wayne LaPierre and co., who I basically consider mass murderers at this point, were victims of their own policies and I'm the bad guy. ok.

this guy has a point guys

makes you think

I'm expecting a lot of sneering from NRA type about "See Canada has gun control and mass killings too!" coming up now

killer's FB page is full of gun nut shit btw: https://www.facebook.com/justin.bourque.5682?fref=ts

in general it's a problem when people make political hay out of isolated events

the only non-isolated (i.e. fairly common) aspect of this shooting is that it's a shooting. which happens far too often in this country.

― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seriously, stop talking.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, June 5, 2014 7:42 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you have a problem with what i wrote, perhaps you can explain. i engaged in deliberate overstatement here, obvious the shooters' misogyny connects to things in our culture as we've discussed at great length ITT. but i am more than a little skeptical that this is really //about// misogyny in the same way it is //about// easy access to guns. people kill people with guns, for many reasons (and non-reasons) every day in this country. men inflamed by misogynist and other vile thoughts kill random men and women... not very often. if all it takes to create an elliot rodger is the existence of an aggressively misogynist subculture, then why is this sort of thing so damn rare?

It's almost as if violence against women was a global phenomenon that happens every single day of the year

men inflamed by misogynist and other vile thoughts kill random men and women...

So it's only misogyny if the victims are random and it's not if the perpetrator knew the victims beforehand, I get it now

yeah, that was a mistake, phrasing it that way.

i'm arguing on the side of posters i think are dumb, and i'm being argued against by posters i think are smart, so i'm willing to accept that i'm not looking at this the right way.

i wish people would actually argue against me (as 龜 has) rather than just be snarky (like orbit).

this is ilx 2014

ilx has always been like this

just different trolls once upon a time

The snark was because these points have been well, well covered in the preceding posts

If you see this incident as entirely separate and isolated from the everyday strains of misogyny that permeate our culture rather than simply being the ruthlessly logical and fatal endpoint of said misogyny, then I think maybe you should reevaluate your take on the situation?

I disagree but there's prob a better thread for it xp

i am reevaluating my take, as mentioned just above.

that said, i don't see it as a "logical" endpoint of anything. if it were a "logical endpoint" of something that "permeate(s) our culture" then we'd expect to see it all the time, every day.

xpost

"if you disagree perhaps you should agree" is idk but yknow?

if humans are evolved from monkeys why are there monkeys?????????

I guess you see incidents of domestic abuse and murder as being motivated by something else entirely then? xp

oh it's that engrossing time of the day when amaterist chain-posts and darraghmac speaks truth to power. *rests chin on hands*

if humans are evolved from monkeys why are there monkeys?????????

― write 500 words of song (sleepingbag), Thursday, June 5, 2014 4:52 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

b/c evolution is not "logical"?

anyway since this has been covered before, and i'm not even sure of my own position on this, i'll clear out, so mattresslessness can relax his hands (and chin)

hi matt.

Sorry, I was off having a life for a few hours there.

if all it takes to create an elliot rodger is the existence of an aggressively misogynist subculture, then why is this sort of thing so damn rare?

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IS NOT RARE. AT ALL. Intimate partner violence is horrifyingly common--ONE THIRD of all murdered women are killed not during a mugging or robbery, but by their spouse or lover. One third, and that's a low estimate. The WHO says that globally it's 38%. Street harassment, a form of violence against women's right to be fully functional people in public space, is everywhere, all the time (although men often don't see or notice it and are usually shocked when they find out how aggressive, purposeful, and overwhelmingly common it is).

Women who express opinions on the internet frequently receive death, rape, and mutilation threats that can include their home addresses and details about their lives that indicate the offender is basically stalking them. Police routinely do nothing about these, shrugging them off until someone is actually attacked, raped, or dead.

These points have been made again and again, stop acting like it's some kind of drive-by zing to not take your refusal to acknowledge them seriously.

you are talking past each other. it's comparatively rare for a guy to go on a shooting spree motivated by his hatred of women. it's more common in America because GUNS. If you wanna argue which results in more deaths of women, misogyny or guns (and even positing this dichotomy at all is stupid btw), I'm still gonna go with GUNS.

this is ilx 2014
not a vintage year

even among the varieties of american spree shooter, i think more of them have been motivated by misogyny than is generally considered. jared loughner, schizophrenic though he may be, had a big woman problem:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/scocca/2011/01/17/maybe_jared_loughner_was_a_bigot_after_all.html

http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Suspect-in-custody-two-injured-in-shooting-at-Seattle-Pacific-262043591.html

in orbit u and I have now been ~tone policed~, let us pray together

we as a nation do not care about murdered children

the most effective thing you can do is probably to send a check to a gun-control lobby group, since it should be clear by now that the only voice that matters in American governance is that of money. We need to buy up and bully some senators of our own.

meanwhile
in the toy department of target

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/05/loaded-gun-target-south-carolina

Οὖτις, you may have outwitted Polyphemus with your cunning choice of name, but that last post of yours is beyond mockery

let us remind ourselves that Rodger knifed to death three fucking housemates before his gun rampage

jesus fucking christ another one in seattle!

fuck this country

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/05/justice/seattle-campus-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

the most effective thing you can do IMO is to bring up children, whether yours or others', to respect one another

Goddamnit, babies...

jesus, SPU thing is terrifying. lived for years w/in blocks, walked that campus a thousand times.

let us remind ourselves that Rodger knifed to death three fucking housemates before his gun rampage

what's the point of reminding ourselves this? are you suggesting that a knife is as deadly as a gun in the context of mass violence?

dnftt

the point of reminding ourselves of this, is to ridicule

the most effective thing you can do is probably to send a check to a gun-control lobby group, since it should be clear by now that the only voice that matters in American governance is that of money. We need to buy up and bully some senators of our own.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 23:45 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there is a sickness in the mind of certain members of the disenfranchised and it goes deeper than guns IMO. taking away their guns won't cure or prevent their mental sickness. yeah, by all means campaign to restrict gun usage or w/e but it won't stop the core problem IMO

no more guns and games of the moind

and I'm well aware that guns are symbols of unequally-levied death - if there was a tarot card for the gun, it would represent, perhaps, the selfish ego - so to wield a gun is to wield one's insecurity - I get this - and perhaps guns feed into any egotistical disorder one might suffer - but overwhelmingly they are symptomatic of and subordinate to a greater sickness - one that concerns self-dissatisfaction and fear - one that is thrown down the throats of children every day, often, of their lives

It's probably a lot easier to sit there stroking your chin abt guns when this isn't happening in your country, which has gun restrictions

Second worst thing about spree shootings is Groundhog Day arguments about whether we should focus on (a) guns, (b) mental illness or (c) misogyny/racism/extremism.

taking away their guns won't cure or prevent their mental sickness.

obviously this case is symptomatic of many failings of society but it's a facile argument to suggest that the harm/severity of this event wouldn't have been reduced by taking rodger's guns away.

Second worst thing about spree shootings is Groundhog Day arguments about whether we should focus on (a) guns, (b) mental illness or (c) misogyny/racism/extremism.

― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Friday, June 6, 2014 7:41 AM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also we should focus on all of these things

it's just....metal illness is very complex....so is misogyny/racism/extremism....and while i have little hope we have the political will to do any of them, i think there are some fairly common sense gun control things we could do that could have a massive effect

metal illness is very complex

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/MetalHealthQuietRiot.jpg

haha i think i had metal on the brain

It is fun to think about magic solutions where the world is cleared of all evil. But you eventually have to simplify the problem and attack it from a statistical POV.