it's the daily mail so I am sure certain aspects of this are exaggerated, but still. there was even a video for one of his early songs but it has dropped off the internet, maybe the last copy. also I didn't find this
― katherine, Friday, 13 June 2014 20:19 (nine years ago) link
sam smith is terrible (in a very boring way, in a that-mail-story-makes-total-sense way) but those lj posts are worse
― lex pretend, Friday, 13 June 2014 20:58 (nine years ago) link
lol ok the first post is vmic but i stand by the second one
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Friday, 13 June 2014 20:59 (nine years ago) link
Latch is great but it's goodness doesn't have much to do with Sam Smith.
― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Friday, 13 June 2014 21:03 (nine years ago) link
I think Sande could write better and more exciting songs than the ones she chooses to sing, I don't think this guy has "Next To Me" in him never mind a "Heaven". Also if he doesn't have "money on his mind" and "does it for the love" then all his music should be free.
― boxedjoy, Friday, 13 June 2014 21:05 (nine years ago) link
The UK has artists like Jessie Ware, MNEK, Katy B, Disclosure but they keep trying to send and promote to the US stuff like Jessie J, Ed Sheeran, Emeli Sande and now this dude.
― Greer, Friday, 13 June 2014 21:26 (nine years ago) link
yeah my beef is entirely with the artless pricks in the latter group, not the artists in the former. surely a defensible position?
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Friday, 13 June 2014 21:30 (nine years ago) link
'artless' as shorthand for 'i deeply suspect their motivations to be corporate'
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Friday, 13 June 2014 21:31 (nine years ago) link
I figured out how the chorus of "Stay With Me" went before I even heard it
― The Reverend, Friday, June 13, 2014 2:57 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i got a couple bars into it and went wait, this is just "I Won't Back Down" by Tom Petty
― some dude, Friday, 13 June 2014 21:56 (nine years ago) link
"The UK has artists like Jessie Ware, MNEK, Katy B, Disclosure but they keep trying to send and promote to the US stuff like Jessie J, Ed Sheeran, Emeli Sande and now this dude."
to be fair, in my experience, US audiences (that is, people who do not post on ilx) tend to think the first group is uninspiring to actively awful, even when exposed to them -- except, lately, disclosure, and I wouldn't necessarily have called that.
― katherine, Friday, 13 June 2014 21:56 (nine years ago) link
it's chicken and egg, in other words -- do people really, really like sam smith because that's the guy they're promoting, or are they promoting sam smith because that's the stuff people really, really like?
― katherine, Friday, 13 June 2014 21:57 (nine years ago) link
Pretty obviously the latter IMO
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 13 June 2014 22:02 (nine years ago) link
Fair point. The latter certainly do appeal to the sensibilities of adult contemporary listeners more than the former do.
― Greer, Friday, 13 June 2014 22:02 (nine years ago) link
I have a stereotype in my head of who is into Jessie J and it doesn't match my stereotype of adult contemporary listeners. (Granted, this is largely because the biggest Jessie J fan I know is my gay sister-in-law, who now that I think of it is hugely into Cyndi Lauper as well so maybe I need to interrogate my stereotypes a little more closely)
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 13 June 2014 22:26 (nine years ago) link
lol i think that further piece of information doesn't exactly throw a wrench into it
― mattresslessness, Friday, 13 June 2014 22:45 (nine years ago) link
poor choice of metaphor tbh
― mattresslessness, Friday, 13 June 2014 22:49 (nine years ago) link
when someone young can pull off a nostalgic old soul vibe that appeals to moms and dads and grandparents, that's a license to print money (Josh Groban, Norah Jones, etc.). if that artist also appeals to some listeners their own age, doubly so (Adele, Alicia Keys, etc.).
― some dude, Friday, 13 June 2014 22:52 (nine years ago) link
I intensely dislike his voice. Dud.
― ...and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe and SAW! (Turrican), Friday, 13 June 2014 23:18 (nine years ago) link
i like "La La La" because the lyrics of the song fit his weird trembly baby voice
― some dude, Friday, 13 June 2014 23:39 (nine years ago) link
that's very insightful re: norah jones, alicia keys, etc. and i'm sure that phenomenon is at play here. at the same time tho i never would have guessed he'd have this amount of appeal among ppl his own age in america since, despite his hip dance track appearances, he's rather unstylish unlike adele and alicia
― dyl, Saturday, 14 June 2014 00:35 (nine years ago) link
gotta say this was a shock
― arid banter (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 June 2014 00:37 (nine years ago) link
Not much, maybe, but some. Most everything else I've heard from him gives me major meh if not outright zzzzz, but if his star ascending is what it takes to turn "Latch" (which, again, I find myself on the exact opposite side of the spectrum from Rev when it comes to what I want to hear in clubs) into a surprise, belated hit in the U.S., so be it.
― Cronk's Not Cronk (Eric H.), Saturday, 14 June 2014 00:46 (nine years ago) link
The amount of leeway ILM gives not to pop (which is a good thing) but music which is nakedly designed to make a few people very rich (which only incidentally crosses over with pop)
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Friday, 13 June 2014 19:01 (Yesterday)
this is a fairly serious false binary, also invites speculation as to which luminaries didn't suffer the taint of trade somewhere behind them
sam smith is despicable
― Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (nakhchivan), Saturday, 14 June 2014 00:46 (nine years ago) link
I liked some of the stuff he did before the album ("safe with me", the disclosure / naughty boy features), but his sandéfication has been really dismaying and has played out so inevitably and inexorably. idk if that's who he always wanted to be or if the label pushed him that way and he just doesn't care because now he's getting $$.
one ancillary issue that i'm sort of glad has been cleared up to be a non-issue is that he was finally able to have his "coming out" moment in the "lover to lover" video. it seemed like pronouns were being used very carefully and the issue was being tiptoed around in the first couple of singles and videos even though it was this massive elephant in the room. are there any other gay pop stars currently in their prime that are as commercially successful as this guy?
i don't know how much to read into the stuff with his mum. he certainly wouldn't be the first pop star to have a pushy, wealthy parent.
― ginuwine's cousin (monotony), Saturday, 14 June 2014 00:50 (nine years ago) link
― Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (nakhchivan), Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:46 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wasn't meant to be a binary. there's a heavy intersection, as I said, but 'pop' is the artistic process, whereas venal careerist cunts like sam smith who nominally trade in 'pop' are the charmless exploiter-figures who happen to have colonised *part* of pop & i have no idea why ILM pays them any serious attention at all, except as case-studies of stardom-seeking privileged above artistic creation (another phenomenon of our times!)
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 00:58 (nine years ago) link
i'm aware that in saying that i probably strike discord with the majority of you stardom-junkies. something to be said for 'pop' incorporating stardom, performance etc as well - i receive it perhaps on overly musicological terms
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:03 (nine years ago) link
he's a boring performer and his stardom is irritating. there, happy?
the bar for being the subject of a moderately well attended ILM thread is pretty damn low. as it should be. the idea that there should be a lofty cred test barrier of entry for being the topic of conversation around here is ludicrous.
― some dude, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:04 (nine years ago) link
eh, I'm kinda happy for this thread to exist so long as it's wall-to-wall abuse tbh, which it basically has been. kiu
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:08 (nine years ago) link
yeah but you have lots of threads to abuse us in
― some dude, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:13 (nine years ago) link
how many pop threads do I wade into, all moron guns blazing semi-informedly? that's right - only the ones whose perpetrating artists are rudely emblazoned on every other fucking metro advert i see. and haim. ;)
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:15 (nine years ago) link
haim had quite a lot of metro adverts here too, tbf
i'll probably end up kinda liking haim in ten years, yknow. they're a world apart from the horror of sam smith
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:17 (nine years ago) link
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:58 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I have limited interest in this guy (though I am intrigued that andy k appears to like his album) but I think the idea that all these pop stars who veer adult-contemporary are just soulless corporate hacks is itself a product of wishful thinking about what our generation (in the broad sense) is "into", as if this sound can only be the product of corporate perversion of artistic intentions.
I fully believe that Smith is making the music he wants to make, and is being "true" to himself in a way that recording a whole album with Disclosure/Naughty Boy etc. would not be.
I'm just not dying with anticipation to hear the result.
― Tim F, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:24 (nine years ago) link
venal careerist cunts like sam smith who nominally trade in 'pop' are the charmless exploiter-figures who happen to have colonised *part* of pop
case-studies of stardom-seeking privileged above artistic creation (another phenomenon of our times!)
none of these terms seem to make a lot of structural sense, art vs non art, non venal vs venal pop stars, careerist vs non careerist pop stars, the pop world which is colonized vs that part of it where its autochthons get along really well with one other, sam smith's debilities occur at the level of talent, the rest is implying dark motives and hideous character defects to one dumb looking face
i like your attack but it's too conspiratorial in this instance
― Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (nakhchivan), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:26 (nine years ago) link
I don't think - or I can't detect that - there was an artistic intention beyond wanting 'to be a star' through the most direct available route. Obviously he'll have music he prefers, music he's grown up with, but I genuinely think he's chosen to play the music he thinks will make him the most famous. For all I know he's a big Miles Davis fan, but isn't learning the trumpet any time soon. Of course, I can't prove his intentions, and ultimately his music is ours to interpret. But there are ways of veering adult-contemporary, and on my two listens through the single that began this thread I couldn't detect any sophistication at all. You may disagree.
Debility of talent is a symptom of wanting the buck of stardom too easy, maybe?
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:34 (nine years ago) link
venal/careerist/artistic = a question of degree not a binary, yes
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:36 (nine years ago) link
Any and all concerns about venality, non-art and the corporate machinations that have put him on the radio are secondary to the fact that I just don't think his music is very good. No need to bring arbitrarily constructed dichotomies between artistic creation and stardom-seeking into this.
― Greer, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:40 (nine years ago) link
I find it amusing that imago can't relate to this music on any level and yet pretends to have privileged insight into the mind of its makers.
― Tim F, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:43 (nine years ago) link
dude, I can guarantee that literally everyone in this thread being set up as the supposed "artistic" "alternative" to sam smith who is signed to a major has people at that label involved in their career whose primary goal is making money
― katherine, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:45 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, but I'm perhaps trying to ascribe his music's badness to his degree of inveiglement within such processes (I know there are 'corporate popstars' who make decent or even good music, but for me the stink of demographic planning drips from his every facet). His stardom has been a really, really quick fix IMO.
I can relate to it! It had a big, dumb, sad tune and the lyrics appealed to big, simple emotions that I and everyone experience, albeit in much more complex ways. Then it lost my interest.
I don't think Sam Smith shows any sign of working against or even parallel to the wishes of his kingmakers, unlike many popstars. Unlike even Justin fkn Bieber!
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:47 (nine years ago) link
justin bieber currently seems to have as sound a careerist instinct as miles davis or xenakis did
there are always questions of degree and it isn't altogether clear that this smith nudnik is so much more careerist than whichever luminary
― Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (nakhchivan), Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:50 (nine years ago) link
plus there's a bit more going on in "stay with me" than "for all who want a lover to stay with them" -- not saying that "oops, I did it again, I crave intimacy from this one-night stand" is academy award-level characterization, but it is a bit more nuanced than that
― katherine, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:55 (nine years ago) link
iirc the pre-fame track that was floating around a while back was astonishingly bad.
lj isn't it easier to think that maybe sam smith makes bad music coz he isn't a very interesting or thoughtful or talented guy, all reasons behind people making bad music from the least commercial to the most.
― Merdeyeux, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:56 (nine years ago) link
why am I defending sam smith this is awful
― katherine, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:56 (nine years ago) link
To clarify: I didn't bring those artists into this because I think they provide a more artistic alternative to sam smith or anyone else, I just think they make far more compelling music.
(One of) Pop music's strengths is getting across complex emotional states and boiling them down to a simple but effective message. Sometimes all you need is "I wanna dance with somebody who loves me". Whether or not it works is down to things like the strength of the performance and the song. Smith just doesn't convince me to invest. The tune can be big and sad, the lyrics can be simple and that all can still work. Just doesn't here imo.
Not really interested in whether he gets along with his "kingmakers".
― Greer, Saturday, 14 June 2014 01:58 (nine years ago) link
Fair, good post.
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 02:01 (nine years ago) link
I will close my attack by saying, in response to Merdeyeux, that "he isn't a very interesting or thoughtful or talented guy" surely feeds into his artistic motivations too, but we're getting too far from the text here, I suppose, which is where my argument falls apart
― Who whom kissed? (imago), Saturday, 14 June 2014 02:06 (nine years ago) link
go back, read all Tim's posts, think about what you've done
― arid banter (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 14 June 2014 08:15 (nine years ago) link
Terrible artist; interesting thread.
I just finished reading Bedsit Disco Queen yesterday, and one of the strongest take-home messages from that book was: the idea that you can read an artist's "intentions" based on your concepts of their (perceived) audience is one of the most misguided ways you can approach music.
Now I'm going to have to go and scrub my browser to get the Daily Mail's cookies off it. Ugh. :-/
― you go PUNCHING yourself in... THE DICK! (Branwell with an N), Saturday, 14 June 2014 09:01 (nine years ago) link
Basically, this sort of thing goes on, but nobody's dumb enough to put it onto emails.
― Mark G, Monday, 26 October 2015 15:08 (eight years ago) link
There's no way the 6Music guy would have said "Radio 6" in an email. And that's just for starters.
― mike t-diva, Monday, 26 October 2015 17:15 (eight years ago) link
The Independent story above has been deleted (suspiciously!), here's a similar article.
― flyingtrain (sbahnhof), Monday, 26 October 2015 17:44 (eight years ago) link
Not suspiciously, apart from the UPDATE I posted above it all proved to be wrong.
Anyway, the mirror has it the band did a cover version. Which it wasn't, right?
― Mark G, Monday, 26 October 2015 18:19 (eight years ago) link
I love music— Sam Smith (@samsmithworld) November 6, 2017
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 08:44 (six years ago) link
lol
― imago, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 08:49 (six years ago) link
haha
― niels, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 09:26 (six years ago) link
New board description, 'As recommended by Sam Smith'.
― Dan Worsley, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 09:42 (six years ago) link
well that's quite impressive after having to sing Too Good at Goodbyes 1000+ times
― Ludo, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 10:57 (six years ago) link
― imago, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 10:59 (six years ago) link
just cringed through my initial responses to this thread. should have just called him a worthless hack and been done with it tbh
― imago, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 11:00 (six years ago) link
Less interesting than Adele/Emeli Sandé, amirite?
― Mark G, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 11:51 (six years ago) link
serious contender for most overrated debut of the decade
also nominating Hozier
― niels, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 12:32 (six years ago) link
did anyone actually rate his debut? or hozier's?
― dyl, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 23:45 (six years ago) link
(i know they were both grammybait but that barely counts imo)
i'd like to belatedly apologize for starting this thread 3 years ago
― dyl, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 23:46 (six years ago) link
hmm maybe just hype, Smith had an RS cover story and Hozier sold almost a million copies though
― niels, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 07:22 (six years ago) link
Every Sam Smith song sounds like a Kidz Bop cover of "Tears in Heaven."— Louis Virtel (@louisvirtel) November 7, 2017
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 13:04 (six years ago) link
All noise dude summertime fun board and pickle bar— Sam Smith (@samsmithworld) November 6, 2017
― The Suite Life of Jack and Wendy (wins), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 13:13 (six years ago) link
ban lj— Sam Smith (@samsmithworld) September 20, 2017
― with your tight body and horrific androgynous monster face (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 13:18 (six years ago) link
I hate this guy's voice. It's like a more boring Justin Vernon.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 14:14 (six years ago) link
Hozier by some distance better than this polished nothing
― Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 23:36 (six years ago) link
Is there a good reason this guy is being given one hours worth of primetime on BBC1 to plug his latest album? Licence Fee anyone?
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
people are cunts
― imago, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
No, I believe it's called "The Thrill of It All"
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:52 (six years ago) link
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/sam-smith-backlash-r-kelly-t-shirt-snl-afterparty
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
he's a fucking cunt moron, what do you expect. an insipid parasite
― imago, Thursday, 9 November 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
If you had started the thread like that we could all just have gone home.
Was a good read, though.
― the article don, Friday, 10 November 2017 08:42 (six years ago) link
I thought I liked "Money On My Mind" but have checked it out again and the only good bits are when he isn't singing.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 November 2017 10:14 (six years ago) link
the bits where he whispers that he doesn't have: and that he does it for the love ?
Still, he's appealing to the people that like to sing loud songs about loving Money.
― Mark G, Friday, 10 November 2017 12:47 (six years ago) link
No, the instrumental coda only.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 November 2017 12:49 (six years ago) link
jfc
― imago, Friday, 10 November 2017 12:52 (six years ago) link
It was on my top 50 tracks from the year, no idea why now, faintly embarrassing.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 November 2017 13:03 (six years ago) link
Just saw that t-shirt thing. What you said. xpost.
― Mark G, Friday, 10 November 2017 14:44 (six years ago) link
"how do you sleep?" is i think the second single of theirs in a row to have ended up growing on me despite initially leaving me cold
― dyl, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:24 (four years ago) link