Yeah, Adele and Amy Winehouse and Enya and Lion King soundtrack and Marvin Gaye are not rock.
― Tuomas, Monday, 8 September 2014 08:52 (nine years ago) link
Adele and Amy Winehouse = rock now?
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 09:01 (nine years ago) link
Coldplay - Rush of Blood to the Head is a definite
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 09:02 (nine years ago) link
the original thread was concerned with the albums that show up as the token representatives of their genre in rock-centric lists/overviews, are their places where rock albums show up in the same way? I feel like I see Radiohead invoked sometimes by people writing about contemporary classical music as an example of 'interesting' rock music.
― a puddle of quivering 501s (soref), Monday, 8 September 2014 09:09 (nine years ago) link
yeah, Radiohead are sort of the highbrow listener's rock band of choice. and I guess Amy Winehouse gets held up as man example of contemporary 'soul' music by people who want a generic non-rock, non-male entry in their list of canonical dead Britishers. Arctic Monkeys is the stock answer for politicians and Uni Challenge competitors alike when asked to name a band.
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 09:15 (nine years ago) link
That's to do with Johnny Greenwood's work with classical musicians as well.
This is a disease in writing about contemporary classical music: Zappa, and so much prog, Pink Flloyd are other examples of this.
Although its more complicated: certainly in the UK a lot of people in contemporary classcial would like Radiohead but also find Portishead (and tri-hop) really great. xp
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 8 September 2014 09:19 (nine years ago) link
I nominate the first Boston album and probably the second one― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, September 7, 2014 3:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, September 7, 2014 3:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
First two Boston albums a given, but you forgot another famous band from Boston: Extreme - Pornograffiti.
― how's life, Monday, 8 September 2014 09:25 (nine years ago) link
It's amazing how many Paula Abdul fans accidentally bought that one for "Decadence Dance".
― how's life, Monday, 8 September 2014 09:28 (nine years ago) link
You need to have a v narrow def of rock to ask this question. I imagine 'rock' here would mean something like white bread classic rock and beatles/stones, mostly male blues-based rock only.
However so-called rock has undergone so many mutations with all kinds of music it would be v hard to find someone that disliked all of those mutations.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 8 September 2014 09:29 (nine years ago) link
It's less about rock mutating than the pre-baby boom generation dying off. In 2014 even senior citizens grew up w/rock & roll whereas back in the day there was a real generational divide about rock (perhaps like rap). So Sgt Pepper is the choice that resonates here, at least w/me. My parents didn't like rock at all in the late 60s (tho my dad loved Hank Williams et al) until the Beatles came out w/ Yesterday and they were all like "hey this stuff is actual music." Typical reaction.
― zombie formalist (m coleman), Monday, 8 September 2014 10:36 (nine years ago) link
My uncle, a culturally adventurous but politically conservative English prof in his late 40s, bought Sgt Pepper & Magical Mystery Tour upon release because he'd read about em and passed them on to ten-year old me after a few listens. I was like, score! Bet he wasn't the only one.
― zombie formalist (m coleman), Monday, 8 September 2014 10:40 (nine years ago) link
Token rock album
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 8 September 2014 10:41 (nine years ago) link
I won't say it's an affectation for people born post WW2 to dislike rock but it's pretty rare.
― zombie formalist (m coleman), Monday, 8 September 2014 10:43 (nine years ago) link
In the UK there's a specific strain of dance music, EDM or what have you, that seems to appeal to casual middle-aged listeners. I'm sort of semi-surprised how many people in their early-40s come up and request things like Disclosure or Rudimental when I'm playing casual DJ sets in pubs/social gatherings. But then like m coleman says, these are probably all ex-ravers who were dancing in the late-80s and to their children, the notion of 'rock' music is probably a quaint relic from their grandparents' days.
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 10:46 (nine years ago) link
I'm surprised music professor above doesn't like Curtis Mayfield. Seems to me if you like only one thing, you'll seek out others like it.
― Opus Gai (I M Losted), Monday, 8 September 2014 11:49 (nine years ago) link
i don't like rock music and the only albums itt that i like are:
ASHLEE SIMPSON - I AM ME
― prolego, Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Actually everything in the Hole lineage - Ashlee, Paramore, Sky
― prolego, Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― lex pretend, Monday, 8 September 2014 11:50 (nine years ago) link
also, yeah yeah yeahs
― lex pretend, Monday, 8 September 2014 11:51 (nine years ago) link
I don't know what kind of music Ashlee Simpson makes but you like PJ Harvey lex, so you like rock music to some extents.
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 11:52 (nine years ago) link
I'm a "rocker", but I know lots of people who don't like rock - people besides "squares", I mean. I think it's probably common in cities?Also a lot of people I've encountered who like lounge and orchestral reject most rock unless it is stuff like The Moody Blues. Also alt / electronic types who only like Eno?
― Opus Gai (I M Losted), Monday, 8 September 2014 11:57 (nine years ago) link
I don't know what kind of music Ashlee Simpson makes
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, September 8, 2014 11:52 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you're always going on about how you want recommendations right? ashlee simpson's discography, in chronological order, go.
― lex pretend, Monday, 8 September 2014 12:08 (nine years ago) link
Dave Matthews Band - Under the Table and Dreaming
― odd proggy geezer (Moodles), Monday, 8 September 2014 12:08 (nine years ago) link
Oh that reminds me, I remember some Wu-Tang interview - RZA maybe? - from the 1990s where he said he was enjoying Blues Traveler's Four.
― how's life, Monday, 8 September 2014 12:23 (nine years ago) link
Well, he probably doesn't count as a guy who doesn't like rock, but Blues Traveler's Four regardless.
― how's life, Monday, 8 September 2014 12:24 (nine years ago) link
Maybe some Big Head Todd and the Monsters or something. I mean, even if you didn't like rock back in 94, we all went to H.O.R.D.E.
― how's life, Monday, 8 September 2014 12:28 (nine years ago) link
trying to decide which Dead album belongs here, but it's probably more like a shoebox full of cassette tapes
― Brad C., Monday, 8 September 2014 12:30 (nine years ago) link
What a bizarre kind of question. Because what kind of "non-rock fans" are we talking about?
Westerners who "only listen to Classical music" and don't like anything modern, rock or pop or whatever?People who live in other countries with entire pop cultures of their own?Kids who listen to pop, but not rock?People who listen to hip-hop, or country, or dance, or literally any of the billion other genres which are not rock?
"non rock fans" is just such a weird conceit because it posits rock so centrally in this bizarro-ILM inversion.
I'm confused. Deeply. By this thread.
― Shugazi (Branwell with an N), Sunday, September 7, 2014 3:47 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otfm
― marcos, Monday, 8 September 2014 14:19 (nine years ago) link
well, it is a sort of parody thread of the other thread which didn't make a lot of sense either so...
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 14:22 (nine years ago) link
What would the post-2000 answer to this question be?American Idiot?
― MarkoP, Monday, 8 September 2014 14:28 (nine years ago) link
Like, people who love non-rock and like rock don't like, love rock, what rock albums those people like.
― Evan, Monday, 8 September 2014 15:30 (nine years ago) link
^ ilm pre-covers the next Blur single
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 15:37 (nine years ago) link
Dave Matthews Band
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 8 September 2014 15:39 (nine years ago) link
Cat Empire
― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 15:41 (nine years ago) link
HoleQueenBlack SabbathThe WhoThe Rolling Stones
and that's all.
― faghetti (fgti), Monday, 8 September 2014 16:15 (nine years ago) link
"yeah, Radiohead are sort of the highbrow listener's rock band of choice"
the definition of the word "highbrow" has changed over the years...
― scott seward, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:37 (nine years ago) link
It's totally relative. Depends entirely on the "listeners" demographic you're talking about.
― Evan, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:51 (nine years ago) link
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u120/kingkonggodzilla/0469d218-6c41-476a-b9e0-0d8e7bc47e41_zpsa01e34c0.jpg
― how's life, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:52 (nine years ago) link
i just think of teens and college kids when i think of radiohead listeners. but, yeah, they can be highbrow too, i guess.
― scott seward, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:06 (nine years ago) link
more high than brow
― Daphnis Celesta, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:06 (nine years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, September 8, 2014 1:06 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Than yeah, if you compiled all of the music teens and college kids listen to I'd bet Radiohead is relatively on the highbrow end of that particular spectrum, proportionately.
― Evan, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:16 (nine years ago) link
teens 20 years ago can be middle aged high brow now
― strychnine, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:17 (nine years ago) link
A tenure-track music theorist I know, a rising star in the field, is currently working on a book on Radiohead. His article "Kid Algebra: Radiohead's Euclidean and Maximally Even Rhythms" is forthcoming in Perspectives in New Music.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:45 (nine years ago) link
He talks in maths.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:55 (nine years ago) link
can we spend some time on this thread talking about how Chester Bennington is now singing with Stone Temple Pilots or is that too much of a digression
― stacked as fuck & imposing (DJP), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:58 (nine years ago) link
thread's got nothing else going on tbf
― Daphnis Celesta, Monday, 8 September 2014 20:03 (nine years ago) link
Radiohead seem to crop up in 'classical music is not just for squares' type pieces in broadsheets where people make the case for contemporary classical music, I don't know to what extent they are rock music that contemporary classical stans like or if they want some of Radiohead's rock 'n' roll glamour to rub off on them (Radiohead possessing rock 'n' roll glamour seems odd idea, but I get the impression people writing these articles think they do?)
― a puddle of quivering 501s (soref), Monday, 8 September 2014 20:10 (nine years ago) link
i actually sold radiohead CDs to an old classical guy! he bought ligeti and some other classical and radiohead. maybe they heard that steve reich was a fan.
― scott seward, Monday, 8 September 2014 20:24 (nine years ago) link
too bad steve reich's radiohead tribute is so limp
― rushomancy, Monday, 8 September 2014 21:10 (nine years ago) link
maybe it isn't a tribute
― Daphnis Celesta, Monday, 8 September 2014 21:15 (nine years ago) link
That'll be the radiohead xp
― smithery loves cuntery (wins), Monday, 8 September 2014 21:16 (nine years ago) link
FORM A QUEUE PLEASE
― Daphnis Celesta, Monday, 8 September 2014 21:18 (nine years ago) link
It's not the same as "selling out" though. Selling out is cool. Reverb can be awful, though. That music will work great at a wedding or something, you'll see, one day it'll sneak up on you and you'll be like "oh I actually love Beach House".
xp to something imago posted way upthread but there is no difference between Jet and Wolfmother and something like "Carry On My Wayward Son". I played Guitar Hero 2, I know Jet and Wolfmother songs and played them right next to so-called rock canon classics. (The only songs worth shit in that game were Pretenders, Heart and Lamb Of God imho.) But the way that rock discussion will fuck with one thing and not another when they are functionally identical is mysterious to me. When you say "Mike Patton is cool" I know he's cool! you think I don't have all his records? Love Mike Patton, Mr. Bungle is the only zany music in my record collection. Ween and Zappa came and got kicked to the curb but Mr. Bungle stays. But yeah, the only time when I've thought "oh? maybe Mike Patton is ~not~ so cool" are those moments when he turns and addresses the camera and tells RHCP or whoever to suck his dick. Or that situation you're describing with Wolfmother. Or when Nick Cave said the same thing about RHCP, that infamous dis, "whenever something shitty is on the radio it's always RHCP." That kind of talk doesn't make me think any better of anybody. And weirdly is exactly what I think of when I hear the sound of a guitar solo: competition, this-is-cool-but-not-that, band beefs, impermeable monoculture, men pushing each other around, etc.
― fgti, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 12:53 (nine years ago) link
that's a fair point - when it becomes expressively a dick-measuring contest, nobody wins.
i'd like to try you out with potential exceptions to that guitar solo pavlovian abreaction, but that's probably for another thread!
― imago, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:06 (nine years ago) link
I think that the more interesting way to approach this debate is what qualities people hear in the rock music they DO like that redeem it, or set it apart from the rest of the genre. Otherwise you're going "yeah but there's essentially no difference between that and xyz bands".
Like, I get what it is that the Lex gets out of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs or early PJ Harvey. I don't necessarily understand what redeeming qualities he hears in, say, Queens of the Stone Age or Sonic Youth.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:10 (nine years ago) link
>_< that was the thread I kepf trying to have but everyone is annoying >_<
― Tim F, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:18 (nine years ago) link
Hey! That's what I wanted to talk about too!
― fgti, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:38 (nine years ago) link
Lex likes QOTSA and Sonic Youth?
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:42 (nine years ago) link
it was pretty obvious this thread would be bad the minute everyone ignored non-rock fans bringing up ashlee simpson
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:43 (nine years ago) link
xp i don't especially like sonic youth and i like one QOTSA song
The idea that Paramore Ashlee et al are in the lineage of Hole is a strange concept that I don't get at all
― fgti, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:51 (nine years ago) link
Try as I might, I still can't help but feel that at this stage the 'All rock music is essentially the same' opinion is as much of a challop as 'all jazz music is the same' or 'all dance music is the same' or 'all Chinese people look the same'. It reminds me of when my dad used to tell me that Mortal Kombat and Streetfighter II were essentially the same game, and 13 y/o me just couldn't work it out until I lost interest in video games and they all started to look exactly like variations on 'man with gun, runs round maze, shoots baddies'. If you distance yourself from something enough, it's all going to blur into one. Spend enough time with it and those narcissistic differences become cavernous. And yeah, I don't think it's possible or fair to separate physical sonics from the intent behind them. You may as well be saying 'all paintings are the same because it's paint on a canvas' as far as I'm concerned.
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:53 (nine years ago) link
xp: Heh, I got all three Ashlee albums out from my library based on lex's "part of the lineage from hole to paramore" post and it felt like the time xhuck eddy convinced me to buy a Foghat album.
― how's life, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:56 (nine years ago) link
Not "the same" but not functionally different enough for lines and swords to be drawn
― fgti, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:57 (nine years ago) link
it's really the second album where ashlee really sounds like she's channelling the courtney rasp (rather than just her confessionalism)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 13:58 (nine years ago) link
xpost, but can you see why someone might LOVE Faith No More and really dislike the Chili Peppers, for example?
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:02 (nine years ago) link
My favourite Hole song is that comp version of "Olympia" where Courtney overdubbed her rasp 20 times. (Seriously) I'd love to pass that track to Ashlee
― fgti, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:03 (nine years ago) link
xp of course yes, I was specifically referring to the ""vast gulf"" between Wolfmother and any other song I hear on classic rock radio
― fgti, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:05 (nine years ago) link
Try as I might, I still can't help but feel that at this stage the 'All rock music is essentially the same' opinion is as much of a challop as 'all jazz music is the same' or 'all dance music is the same' or 'all Chinese people look the same'. It reminds me of when my dad used to tell me that Mortal Kombat and Streetfighter II were essentially the same game
Ladies and gentlemen... Dog Latin!
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:13 (nine years ago) link
i think a lot of the time the reason bands like Wolfmother suck is because they produce a recycled version of a 40-year-old idea without improving on it in any way whatsoever.
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:15 (nine years ago) link
That is completely irrelevant if you don't think the 40-year old idea was any good in the first place though.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:18 (nine years ago) link
fine you don't have to like Led Zep, of course, but that's where the line in the sand comes from, and it does boil down to historical context and intent as with all art and music.
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 November 2014 14:39 (nine years ago) link
"The sound of rock music makes me feel like I want to see civilization crumble and fail" is what I'm saying.
Isn't that what it sounds like to good rockers too?
― things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 November 2014 16:45 (nine years ago) link