Can we stop scaring bethune away with taunting? I'm interested in what he/she has to say.
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t059/T059123A.jpg
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Cathy, I heart you, but I said that it wasn't available for free in my post!
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:31 (eighteen years ago) link
"Stalin, who presided over the ensuing iron age of the USSR, was an autocrat of exceptional, some might say unique, ferocity, ruthlessness and lack of scruple. Few men have manipulated terror on a more massive scale. There is no doubt that under some other leader of the Bolshevik party the sufferings of the peoples of the USSR would have been less, the number of victims smaller. Nevertheless, any policy of rapid modernisation in the USSR, under the circumstances of the time, was bound to be ruthless and, because imposed against the bulk of the people and imposing serious sacrifices on them, to some extent coercive."
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago) link
Apparently, he was only 5'3".
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link
Ah, but I have. ;-) His stuff always ends up on reserve over here, so I've dipped in from time to time.
I have to say that piece you're quoting doesn't do much to change my image of him.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link
actually in ref. to TOMBOT's earlier question, soviet film probably represents the single most lasting and awesome artistic achievement by the USSR. of course, the vast majority of the good stuff was mercilessly cut by censors or flat-out banned (and was usually implictly critical of the regime and especially socialist realism anyway), but there's a lotta good shit to be found.
― ZR (teenagequiet), Monday, 30 January 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link
otm
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― andy --, Monday, 30 January 2006 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle vague), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link
It's telling that German soldiers would walks 200+ miles to be captured by the Americans.
― andy --, Monday, 30 January 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:20 (eighteen years ago) link
I think German policy in the occupied Soviet Union might have a lot to do with that.
― The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle vague), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago) link
The early Soviet era (pre-Socialist Realism) - revolutionary era blending into Lenin with stragglers into Stalinism was ripe with art. Rodchenko and Malevich and El Lissitzky, Constructivism/Suprematism, etc. Eisenstein and early Soviet film, of course.
Also, The Man With The Camera and I Am Cuba for later achievements. And Tarkovsky.
Also at issue is our insularity - westerners in general know relatively little about the painting or the photography or the writing of the later Soviet era, and film knowledge is largely confined to those who broke into the Euro art film market (Tarkovsky), but not much about popular film making.
― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link
You can also treat the failures with more than a 'well, shucks, it was bound to hurt anyway' diffidence.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― andy --, Monday, 30 January 2006 20:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Masked Gazza, Monday, 30 January 2006 20:29 (eighteen years ago) link
dovzhenko's "earth"
kuleshov
meyerhold
all totally brilliant
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:31 (eighteen years ago) link
ts: the great depression vs collectivization/"liquidation" as a "kulak"/mass famine
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link
Not to mention that maybe if there hadn't been all those military purges then just maybe the Nazis wouldn't have been so successful as they were initially. And how much further death was the result?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― ZR (teenagequiet), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:45 (eighteen years ago) link
That isn't how I understand Hobswbawm's attitude at all. But, oh well.
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― bethune, Monday, 30 January 2006 22:11 (eighteen years ago) link
Anybody seen "Night Watch"?
― kingfish kuribo's shoe (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:16 (eighteen years ago) link
Katyn Forest Massacre
These "objective" observers obviously have a vested interest in painting as dark a picture as possible of most of the SU's most successful and transformative policies and programs.
The Artificial Famine/Genocide in Ukraine 1932-33
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― kingfish kuribo's shoe (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mike W (caek), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link
Having quasi-left wing versions of Holocaust deniers is a major bummer.
― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― jeffrey (johnson), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― bethune, Monday, 30 January 2006 22:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mike W (caek), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:51 (eighteen years ago) link
I really like The Age of Revolution. I love Hobsbawm's throwaway details, and his painting-with-broad-strokes style. Not for everyone though, I'm sure.
― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― TRG (TRG), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Nicholas Passant (Nicholas Passant), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― TRG (TRG), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:27 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't think these people are exactly Bush admin lackeys:
http://iraqbodycount.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=cffe318d74f5e5222e778f6f0517a744&submit3=Enter+Site
And I'm pretty sure they're including people killed by insurgents.
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:28 (eighteen years ago) link
Eek. No. He was. Really.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/itn/article/0,2763,184815,00.html
Some will say that Living Marxism won the "public relations battle", whatever that is. Others will cling to the puerile melodrama that ITN's victory in the high court yesterday was that of Goliath over some plucky little David who only wanted to challenge the media establishment.But history - the history of genocide in particular - is thankfully built not upon public relations or melodrama but upon truth; if necessary, truth established by law. And history will record this: that ITN reported the truth when, in August 1992, it revealed the gulag of horrific concentration camps run by the Serbs for their Muslim and Croatian quarry in Bosnia.
But history - the history of genocide in particular - is thankfully built not upon public relations or melodrama but upon truth; if necessary, truth established by law. And history will record this: that ITN reported the truth when, in August 1992, it revealed the gulag of horrific concentration camps run by the Serbs for their Muslim and Croatian quarry in Bosnia.
http://zope06.v.servelocity.net/hjs/sections/greater_europe/document.2005-11-21.8955930068
In 2003, the left-wing Swedish magazine Ordfront published an interview with Johnstone, which repeated her revisionist, genocide-denying views of the Bosnian war. This provoked massive outrage on the part of members of Ordfront’s editorial board and readers, leading to resignation of the editor and a public apology by the magazine for the pain it had caused to Bosnian genocide survivors.
― Mike W (caek), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:29 (eighteen years ago) link