vote for the best Oscar-winning Best Pictures of all time

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I'd rate above The Apartment: Patton, Casablanca and It Happened One Night. Maybe The Best Years of Our Lives. Maybe it is Top 5. I loved the tv You Can't Take It With You, but that was mostly Robards. What's the movie like? If I did a list, it would probably have Costner, Gene Kelly and Jackson Scholz on it, so we don't want to go there.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

never seen Ordinary People. not really sure if I'm a Redford fan, strangely enough.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 19:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Dammit, I left Gigi off my list, somehow! Probably the best muscal to win.

You Can't Take It With You is a seminal stage comedy, but Capra and his writers basically threw out the last third for one of their most simplistic Big Business jeremiads.

I've cooled on Some Like It Hot over the years tho it's still a lark, but Wilder thought The Apartment was a makeup for SLIH losing to Ben-Hur. But I think the only other Wilder comedy that approaches The Apartment in sophistication is A Foreign Affair.

Eric, Russell def for Cuckoo!

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 May 2006 19:58 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm not sure Sunrise counts; if it did, it'd surely be on my list. Totally forgot about It Happened One Night.

cuckoo's nest was probably the third Best Pic I saw in a theater (after Oliver! and The Sting) but I haven't seen it in years, it's a much more sanitized rebel story than the psych-sprawl of the novel, and Big Nurse is basically a misogynist's straw woman (yeah, coming from a gyrophobe like me).

She creeps me the fuck out, in part because she never hisses or even raises her voice. She's every colorless school nurse who gave you an aspirin but wouldn't excusing your lateness for your next class.

Best Years is one of the only completely defensible BPs in history

I agree, Eric, but I rarely read an intelligent defense.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

*excusing = excuse

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link

So, the winners are: the three A's, Casablanca, Rebecca, Unforgiven, Midnight Cowboy, Rebecca.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago) link

pretty much. tho I'd be surprised that anyone thinks Unforgiven is THAT great...? I have issues with it, but it has enough great scenes to make my cut (spec. the scene where Munny's actual past is revealed, "I ain't like you, Will" etc.)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:26 (eighteen years ago) link

things that sucked about Unforgiven:
- gratuitous pants-wetting
- a black cowboy whose race is never mentioned, commented upon, or held against him, even when he's murdered by vindictive townspeople

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Pluses:

- Pungent dialogue
- Ambivalent treatment of women (Eastwood the director seems himself confused about the whores: are they victims or instigators?)
- Munny's transformation from flu-ridden sadsack to the merciless psycho killer. It bothered me when I first saw it, but no longer.
- Excellent perfs by Freeman, Hackman (another deserved Oscar), and all the prostitutes, even by the cute one who gets cut up.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link

it's a good movie. the idea that it's a great one is ridiculous.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link

But it's a good Best Picture winner.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:45 (eighteen years ago) link

agreed. easily one of the top 3 BP winners since 1990.

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

well, most of those aren't even good

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link

no argument there. Silence of the Lambs, Unforgiven, Schindler's List, and Shakespeare in Love are the only BPs since 1990 I think I'd choose to see again. (Although I never saw English Patient). I guess Return of the King, too.

I actually like Shakespeare in Love quite a lot, but, predictably, I was an English major.

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:58 (eighteen years ago) link

this is one of the few Hackman perfs that I genuinely appreciate - esp because when I first saw it it took a while to dawn on me that Hackman is essentially the villain. very subtly played, Hackman plays it like he's being a perfectly reasonable, moral guy the entire time.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:58 (eighteen years ago) link

neither ROTK nor SOTL is a good movie

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

aw c'mon, is there a better example of the serial killer genre than SOTL?

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:01 (eighteen years ago) link

huh I thought I was the only one who thought SOTL was stupid and pointless! I guess me and gabbneb DO have something in common.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:01 (eighteen years ago) link

the serial killer genre is not good. genre is not good.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link

"aw c'mon, is there a better example of the serial killer genre than SOTL?"

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer um slays SOTL.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess I just always rankle at these silly supervillain-esque treatments of serial killers. they always seem belabored and obvious and impossible - as opposed to genuinely evil and scary.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:03 (eighteen years ago) link

"genre is not good."

ah, and we part ways again...

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Also American Psycho >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SOTL

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:04 (eighteen years ago) link

(I'm sure there's more, gimme a minute here)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:04 (eighteen years ago) link

this is one of the few Hackman perfs that I genuinely appreciate

Explain.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:07 (eighteen years ago) link

how green was my valley

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know if those films can match the suspense/mystery aspects of SOTL.

x-post

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link

i think it seems worse than it actually is because everything about it has been since copied ad nauseum

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't like him. I've gone into it on some other thread but he always seems to be doing the same thing - a kind of hard-boiled, no-nonsense, occasionally shouty but alternately smirk-y guy - and it bores me. He's never had a lead role that really blew me away, but he's also ubiquitous, seems like he's been in more crap than Michael Caine even...

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Hoosiers, dude. no, really.

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Hackman's like Jeff Bridges: he disappears into characters so effortlessly that, at his worst, he's uninteresting. I'm glad he's working less these days. There was a period in the late '80s when he starred in, like, 56 movies in two years (alimony, he says).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago) link

amateurist totally stole one of my answers

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 5 May 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link

"he disappears into characters so effortlessly "

I don't see this at all. To me he's more like post-70s Nicholson - a caricature that's the same every time.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 5 May 2006 22:03 (eighteen years ago) link

How can you caricature blandness-as-subterfuge?

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess I just always rankle at these silly supervillain-esque treatments of serial killers.

Hmmm. There's an argument to be made that, whichever of the killers in SOTL you're talking about, you're misreading them, but I suppose it's neither here nor there if you simply don't like the movie. In any case it was certainly Demme's last good one.

Gene Hackman is one of my all-time favorite actors.

phil d. (Phil D.), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:11 (eighteen years ago) link

1. 1929/30 - All Quiet on the Western Front
2. 1977 - Annie Hall
3. 1962 - Lawrence of Arabia
4. 1978 - The Deer Hunter
5. 2004 - Million Dollar Baby
6. 1970 - Patton
7. 1943 - Casablanca
8. 1972 - The Godfather
9. 1957 - The Bridge on the River Kwai
10. 1997 - Titanic

don't read too much into this, i made it in 3 minutes

a.b. (alanbanana), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:16 (eighteen years ago) link

The dialgoue in All Quiet on the Western Front is creaky; had the film been silent it would be a classic (that way we could ignore Lew Ayres' wet solemnity).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:27 (eighteen years ago) link

there's a silent version of "all quiet" but i haven't seen it

a.b. (alanbanana), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago) link

alfred OTM on All quiet

erklie (erklie), Saturday, 6 May 2006 00:05 (eighteen years ago) link

mark sinkers essay on SOTL is where i come from here--and what moves me about it, is that it is trash, hard, unleavened trash, not redeemed at all by middle class pretensions of art. i have no idea why it won the academy award, but it was one of the best movies of the last 15 years, because of the charisma and intellegience of hopkins, because of how those qualities, and his charisma seduced foster (one of the things i think we miss about serial killers is to get that many people unders ones belt one has to be a bit charsamtic, because its the first time ive ever believed her as naive, because of the strangeness and the genuine fright i got from jamie gumb, and because of many of the virtousou(sp) elements of film making...

the apartment i like because of its britlleness, and how much it hates.

anthony easton (anthony), Saturday, 6 May 2006 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link

you're otm (except for Foster - wrong on all counts), and that's exactly why i don't like it. the serial killer seeks celebrity, and the movie delivered a generic form of that celebrity indelibly into pop culture. it won the academy award because, for all its fetishistic blue-collar milieu, it's a big spectacle epitomized by the flayed-dudes-on-cages money shot. as morally indefensible as the terrorist attacks in Independence Day.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 6 May 2006 00:53 (eighteen years ago) link

the aliens were freedom fighters

erklie (erklie), Saturday, 6 May 2006 00:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Around the time she retired Pauline Kael praised The Grifters and dismissed SOTL: "I like my pulp as pulp." I'm not sure what she meant, since SOTL may be slower and attempt ambiguity (the hostility of fellow G-men and local sheriffs directed at Clarice Starling) but it's got the reductive psychology of pure pulp (a helpful explanation by Dr. Lecter: Clarice wants to catch Buffalo Bill because, see, she couldn't save a lamb and she wants to avenge her father's death).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 6 May 2006 01:03 (eighteen years ago) link

thats where kael is wrong--i also like my pulp as pulp, and fucking hell it was pulp, in the most meatspace sense of the word (cf news footage of Dahmer or Gacy,etc--which concentrated on issues of flesh and the body)

anthony easton (anthony), Saturday, 6 May 2006 01:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Every scene with Buffalo Bill is classic. Everything else, not so much... excepting "I can smell yr cunt."

My ten (first half for real, second half a little devil's advocate):

01. Sunrise
02. All About Eve
03. How Green Was My Valley
04. Annie Hall
05. The Best Years of Our Lives
06. Titanic
07. The French Connection
08. Ordinary People
09. Million Dollar Baby
10. Driving Miss Daisy

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 6 May 2006 02:53 (eighteen years ago) link

defend DMD

anthony easton (anthony), Saturday, 6 May 2006 03:03 (eighteen years ago) link

well uh pauline kael liked it! *ducks*

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 6 May 2006 03:04 (eighteen years ago) link

It's hilarious! Esther Rolle "I wouldn't be in your shoes if the good Lord came down here and ask me hisself." Dan Ackroyd just getting really fat. "Bee-uh... and an Are-uh!" I should start a JFK thread on it.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 6 May 2006 04:00 (eighteen years ago) link

yes, DMD is good if conventional; it doesn't stink just cuz Spike Lee (who certainly was robbed) wanted Hoke to burn the mansion down.

Foster is what give SOTL its reason for being; Hopkins isn't scary or believable, he's just a pro at not blinking.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 6 May 2006 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, if only Hopkins had played Capote in Capote and Katherine Hepburn in The Aviator.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 6 May 2006 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link


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