common - like water for chocolate - C/D

oh wait, "the questions" is prime filler, too

Not listened to this in years but I seem to remember 6th Sense and The Light being the best things on it.

id delete time travellin, 6th sense, a film called pimp, payback is a grandmother, pops rap, and maybe song for assata the entire album, but other than that, this is good.

Fixed.

So good. "Time Travelin" is one of the best tracks.

Also love "Funky for You" and oh yeah the rest of the album too.

I think this is Common's second-best album (after Be.) The first few tracks are kind of tedious but from "The Light" on this is a classic.

Common's second-best album (after Be.)

waht

Yeah, it's totally his first-best album.

can i put you guys up on this thing called the 1990s real quick

dude i used to hang with the 1990s way back in the day

this is his best record

no way is 'be' a better album, thats bullshit

i get the arguments for resurrection but its really patchier & way less unique

this album is a classic, the only one that i never was really feeling was 'the questions'

"doin it" is the best track

per usual titchy is dropping a record number of rongs per minute

"i get the arguments for resurrection but its really patchier & way less unique"

^^^er, this is the all time biggest wrong. but im guessing lwfc has more sentimental value for you which is why you love it so.

unique doesnt necessarily = better btw

yes but in this case it does

resurrection is fairly generic & of its time, lwfc is pretty singular

LWFC is "fairly generic & of its time" for a 99-02 era okayplayer/soulquarian album, and there are definitely much better ones.

and fwiw I heard LWFC then One Day then Resurrection, but like them in the opposite order, so I'm not coming from a sentimental value pov.

LWFC is "fairly generic & of its time" for a 99-02 era okayplayer/soulquarian album, and there are definitely much better ones.

― some dad (some dude), Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:30 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not really -- & which ones are 'much better' exactly??

its not like it sounds anything like 'voodoo' or something

its a pretty unique album & even the roots albums from the era sound totally difft

my understanding is that it was done when the roots were recording 'things fall apart' and d'angelo was doing 'voodoo', everyone up in the same studios, and those are better.

i mean resurrection is also 'generic' in a much broader sense, & i love the record & have a sympathetic attachment to it too (im from chicago for fucks sake) but no i.d.'s tracks are like every mid 90s rapper beats ever -- how many soulquarians albums were there from this period, four?? and only two of them have any kind of case for being 'better' than lwfc (erykah & dangelo) and both of those are R&B records.

i like things fall apart but i dont really think its better than this. common is a much better rapper than anyone in the roots

the other day on twitter diddy was trying to get everyone to tweet @ talib kweli and get him to make another black star album

dice raw >>>>>>> common

you don't think Things Fall Apart has any kid of case for being better than Like Water?

xpost - i think LWFC/Electric Circus are low points for Com as an MC even compared to the bland competence of his last couple albums, so yeah I'll rate him below the Roots' MCs in that case

haha any KIND of case

i think the roots mcs took a nose dive after TFA, but there is a lot of hot shit on that album. also it just sounds incredible.

yeah word

roots are just way better than common overall IMO.

i dont really think of it as a neo soul/rap album but if you want some similarly nice warm rhodesd out hip hop then slum villages fantastic vol 2 album does that generally better than lwfc.

"resurrection is fairly generic & of its time"

those are both very respectable qualities.

Of course you can make a case for that but one record hardly makes lwfc 'generic' or something, which was your point al. I like the roots on the whole better than com but lwfc was his artistic peak imo. Not sure why folks are shitting on him lyrically on this record either - he kills cold blooded and doin it and heat. And titchy sounds insane putting dilla's group home on the same ground as common in 00 never mind ahead of him.

Yall are letting titchy's arbitrary challops and yr distaste for gap hoody ads - or in al's case, challopsistic defenses of gap hoody era com - distort year view of this multi faceted, beautifully produced record

yeah i dunno i just recall that album being the beginning of Com's tendency toward awkward pauses and line breaks. but obviously we have different views of his catalog, when all is said and done i do like the record and would still rate it as one of my favs from that year.

xpost

isn't his gap hoodie era more like Be/Finding Forever? i wasn't even saying anything about those records.

i mean i guess i said he was more competent in that era, but i don't know if i actually like those records more.

real talk though deej what do you think of Electric Circus? because based on the negative buzz and my mixed feelings about LWFC I never really even sat down and heard the whole thing, but i'm curious what yr take is.

i'm not deej but it's terrible. there are a couple of beats i wouldn't mind hearing again though.

hey dudes we should all adopt LOL common lyrics as our display names! who's with me?...............anyone?

nah

lol

I'm with some dude, _Resurrection_ is Common's best record hands down. I like LWFC quite a bit, but I similarly concur with some dude that as an MC it's one of Common's worst records (the only ones worse being _Finding Forever_ and _Electric Circus_, abominations both).

deej, you might be right about No I.D.'s beats, but they suit Common perfectly on that album. They're not too ostenatious, but their jazziness is very Chicago in feeling, and they work really well when Common is rapping fast and nimble. The opener is the best example of this, as that piano and the scratches complement his rapping PERFECTLY.

Also, I like "Common Sense" MUCH better than "Common." Having to change that name was bogues.

yeah fuckin ska band

btw damn it's difficult to pick just one lyric from "come close"

Two other reasons _Resurrection_ is a winner, no contest: Ynot Nevertheless and Mista Sinister.

dammit this one is too long for a display name but a good un:

I’m your worst nightmare squared/That’s double for niggas who ain’t mathematically aware

I think if com hadn't fallen off so hard after lwfc folks would look at it a lot more fondly; just because he dumbed his style down further after didn't mean it shouldn't have been straightened out as the times changed. His first record sounds awful & I dare anyone to say its better than lwfc. he's beyond corny on that joint. Even on resurrection his flow is real 90s sounding, and 'I stagger in the gathering' verse is classic but I don't see how it's any less embarrassing than most of his verses on lwfc. I'm from Chicago but to me Chicago sound is like adrenaline rush. The Philly sound was more singular w com's rhymes in a way that wouldn't have worked for most rappers. Who would u rather see rapping on the lwfc beats?

honestly? maybe pharoahe monche or mos def at the time? but i agree that he never had better beats than on lwfc.

rap threads without ethan feel like substitute teacher days in grade school.

he IMed me a bunch of st0rmfront links tonight, you can just assume he'd find some way to work those into this thread if he was here

^^ sorry feel free to googleproof that

Lol Ethan as the krs 1 of ilx

Real talk tho he would just link to copywrite - that's a wrap.mp3 for the 43rd time

"dilla's group home"

that would be frank n dank. sv is like dilla's gangstarr.

i still dont get why 'of its time' and 'real 90s sounding' work against resurrection. you could say the same for illmatic.

sc marley marle

it only works as a criticism if you just dont like that mid 90s sound and imho, when resurrection it came out, it def wasnt thought of as 'generic'. its obv mining the same kinda jazzy samples as a lot of other ppl in that era but what no id/ynot etc came up was pretty individual, or at least perfectly in sync with what common was rapping about. def inspired, either way.

youre misreading me u tard

i think resurrection is a great record -- i have no problem with that mid 90s sound

i just think that lwfc is a much more singular record, because it is. no that doesnt make it INHERENTLY better but i never said that it did -- just that i prefer it /pull it out more often for that reason

his verses have always had pretty wince-worthy lines whether it was 'bitch as missy' on lwfc or 'grammatics that are masculine' on resurrection. his flow was more 90s acrobatic on resurrection so if u prefer that aesthetic yeah yr gonna prefer resurrection but on balance i dont think theres really anything about that record that is somehow superior to lwfc & at least lwfc doesnt really sound like any other rap record, incl the other soulquarian records from the time

rap threads without ethan feel like substitute teacher days in grade school.

― i'm grand like auto theft 3 (Jordan), Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:39 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no doubt.

Don't think I ever really liked common after this album

his verses have always had pretty wince-worthy lines whether it was 'bitch as missy' on lwfc or 'grammatics that are masculine' on resurrection. his flow was more 90s acrobatic on resurrection so if u prefer that aesthetic yeah yr gonna prefer resurrection but on balance i dont think theres really anything about that record that is somehow superior to lwfc & at least lwfc doesnt really sound like any other rap record, incl the other soulquarian records from the time

yeah, but it sounds like a bunch of other R&B records from the same time, and I'd much rather put on Voodoo or Mama's Gun than Common's third-best album, which hasn't really aged that well (Great beginning, some hot jams in the middle, ending is fucking sloooooow).

I'm from Chicago as well, and honestly the only thing that comes to mind when I think of growing up there is R. Kelly and 2Pac, which was just about all I heard on the radio growing up (and even, to an extent, when I go home to visit, whether it's the fact that they still rock the R constantly or that they play the shit out of 2Pac's Greatest Hits on GCI's Old School Sundays or whenever). Chicago is a musically fecund city and so you will inevitably hear lots of music with lots of different perspectives.

Anyways, the way that Resurrection evokes Chicago is mostly in its selection of beats, which rely heavily on old jazz and soul records that were pretty ubiquitous--maybe not on the radio--but in drugstores and diners and bodegas. I wasn't hearing Twista or Do or Die--those were very much regional (and regional within Chicago) rap records--so the way Common is able to evoke a Chicago aura is also very similar to the way he invokes a rich sense of tradition and history, rather than the endless polemics and junior college "philosophy" that he raps about now. Whether or not you feel that '90s b-boy academic style, it's, linguistically, infinitely more interesting and captivating than practically anything he's done since.

u forgot about bone thugs -- that shit was everywhere

Also, your line "Chicago sound is like..."; Adrenaline Rush should probably be replaced by Mobstability.

NO CRUCIAL CONFLICT NO CREDIBILITY!

^always loved them for weirdly having a mid-80s hardcore band name for some reason.

I'd love to rep for CC or DoD, but the Twista albums slay both of them, on the whole.

I regret slagging junior college students above--I was mostly referring to a certain strain of junior college student that's all over Chicago; didactic, weed-blazing (dudes mostly) who have ridiculous and misinformed superiority complexes.

rolling autogoon thread 2009

yo random chicago dude check out our rolling rap music thread

Also, your line "Chicago sound is like..."; Adrenaline Rush should probably be replaced by Mobstability.

― talrose, Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:19 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i meant the single. traxter in general

xpost - fucknuts, it doesnt really sound like any other rap record of the time but who cares? it sounds like plenty neo soul records of the time. which isnt really what i want from a common record. you know something is wrong when dangelos album has an overall tougher sonic aesthetic than commons album.

common was already going a little bit soft on one day which is fine as his flow was still limber but he got more stilted on lwfc and overall i think that the move from chicago where he was not 'accepted' by all his heroes hurt him a little - as soon as he got the ok from de la, tribe and co on the one day album he lost something. also, i think hes just better working with more standard boom bappy producers whether it be ynot, no id, doug infinite or even kanye, rather than dilla, even though i do like the unusualness of tracks like cold blooded and heat.

i love the shit out of this album, especially the warm and languid second-half. 'song for assata' might be the most poyser-ific song of the entire soulquarians period. i think this one has my favorite pops rap too.

this is the only common record i care about any more but his voice just kinda grates on me now since he starting doing all those annoying poetry commercials. Heat is one of my fav dilla beats.

i still think his voice sounds great in the right context, and few rappers could lock into dilla rhythms like he did. i agree it can be hard to put the gap commercials/songs from selma/general corniness

this alb in particular has plenty of instrumental hooks/licks that you can pay attention to instead of the lyrics lol.

yeah i guess i just dont need to listen to him for a while. wait til all these commercials (the microsoft one is still on all the time) run their course and then revisit at some point.

i miss beats that sound like nag champa.

guess I've avoided all those commercials. only thing I seen him do lately was the all star game intro and that was pretty cheesy.
totally surprised me that Dilla basically looped a 1 yr old song to make "Heat".

i used to have the instrumentals for this on vinyl. shit was dope. still my favorite common album. soulquarian apex.

'nag champa' comes from here because james yancey was extremely brilliant. but ya'll already knew that.

so going back and reading the origins of this topic, here's some thoughts. . .

i bought every common album from resurrection thru finding forever on its` release date. up to, and including, electric circus he was my favorite music maker, full stop. like water for chocolate was the peak of my interest in him, so i can't really judge it objectively. it was such a watershed record for me when it came out. it introduced, and simultaneously solidified, so many things that i still hold onto as a music fan.

that said: if you're just talking common at his peak as a rapper, it was the beginning of his decline.

but musically? that didn't fucking matter.

this and electric circus are immaculately produced records. regardless of how you feel about the lyrical content of those albums, the beats —which it feels reductive to even refer to them as that— are stellar. top gear, all the way, all the time.

i stopped paying attention after universal mind control. the bigger they are, the harder they etc., etc.

here's how i'd rank the ones that were on my radar:

1. like water for chocolate
2. resurrection
3. one day it'll all make sense
4. electric circus
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
5. can i borrow a dollar?
6. be
7. finding forever
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
8. universal mind control

i've heard a song or two from things past that and it seems like really corny adult contempo hiphop. i mean, i guess it could be argued that that's what he had been doing ever since like water for chocolate. but those newer ones just feel kind of soulless. and as near as i can tell, he's become especially repetitious. it's lost a bit of its` lustre after the nth iteration.

okay i'm gonna go back and listen to all of his albums that i ignored and will be posting thoughts here. starting this morning with the dreamer, the believer from 2011.

about halfway through and it seems like be redux. he sounds not bad on the mic, lots of good samples, definitely has that soulful common vibe. he's still totally misogynistic, which, for me, negates the impact of some of his more well-intentioned and articulated rhymes. it's solid, but nothing surprising has happened at all.

okay, it ends quite strong. kind of the usual with com albums/the "pop's rap" series. bookended by the highlights, it does feel a bit overlong. not unlistenable, but nothing about it makes me excited to listen again anytime soon. 3 mics.

welp, halfway through nobody's smiling and it's more of the same. beats are just a bit "harder." he does sound a bit more fired up, he's just saying the same thing over and over: we seen it, we lived it, and we ain't havin it. okay, cool?

okay, foot into mouth- "rewind that" is fucking dope and easily my favorite thing since be.

his albums always end really strong, so here we go...

okay so yeah, definitely better on the second half. and i was listening to the deluxe edition, so "rewind that" is actually the end. he sounds engaged on the last few tracks and "young hearts run free" is another easy highlight. still same kind of vibe overall: ambition is apparent, but execution is unenthusiastic. certainly not awful, just all feels a little second tier. at least it has some legit memorable highlights. lonnie lynn sr passed away in 2014 and his contribution is sorely missed. 3 mics.

on to black america again and the first two songs feature bilal. ahh boy.

okay i'm taking off my cynical jerk hat now and i will say: about halfway through baa and it's easily his best since electric circus. he doesn't sound forced at all here. too much posturing on the previous two albums, but this feels like the old common who actually gives a fuck. beats are stellar (+some are fairly weird) and it's a damn fine representation of actual adult contempo hiphop. stevie wonder hollering about rewriting black anerican history is kind of a mindblowing moment in his catalogue. like it feels full circle that he had lauryn singing a stevie song on one of his old albums and he talked about changing the dynamic of black families... and then almost 2 decades later, he fets the official cosign from stevie himself.

still getting through it, but this is an easy 4 mics. too many highlights to start listing. fucking solid.

"little chicago boy"

not even gonna front: i have tears rn

don't care of i sound like a cornball, this is a beautiful album, holy smokes. again: easily his best in over a decade at that point. very firm and mighty 4 mics. even bilal and john legend couldn't fuck it up.

(lol, put my cynical jerk hat back on for a sec)

gonna take a detour into the august greene album...

the august greene album is good! it's glasper+riggins, so the beats are that chunked up synth jazz boombap and com continues to sound reinvigorated. it is a bit dour at times, but very soulful. the track with brandy was unexpected and it's a legit excellent radio jam that hits at the perfect time in the album's sequence. a very good record that plays like a sort of unofficial epilogue to black america again. a very solid 3.5 mics and a pleasant surprise.