russell brand - C or D?

^^^^

Yes but that's not really what anyone's saying

It'd be one thing if he really renounced that shit, and he does seem like a person capable of a fair amount of self-examination

well exactly, his defenders aren't saying a damn thing about his misogyny, branwell's point entirely

Xpost Yes it would. At least it would be a step in the right direction. But that goes without saying.

My internet connection is going; can people just FP that government-naming post until someone does something about it? really appreciate that. Thanks.

Posted on mrf

Brand is a misogynist. Furthermore he is pretty much clueless about anything. I've no trouble admitting that. But that still doesn't make it right to just want to 'wish him away' and not listening to him. We've had enough Tories doing that. Why follow that dreadful example?

Apologies Branwell, didn't know it was off limits. Can a mod please rectify that?

soz what is wrong with wishing clueless misogynists away again?

Amory m8 you don't need to worry, brand's voice will be heard

The thing is, it seems impossible to have a discussion about the various merits and demerits of Brand's message without someone saying 'but don't forget he's a mysoginist', 'but don't forget he's a comedian', 'but he used to be a junkie', 'he has a funny annoying voice', 'he's a self aggrandising self promoter and media whore', 'he wears funny trousers', 'he's rich a do famous', 'he called his book My Booky Wook'. Everyone knows these things, and while I don't wish to downgrade or make light of his misogyny, none of the above factors actually make that much difference as to the overall message and the kind of potential impact it could have on the non-voting public.

Rich a do? Rich and. Typing on phone

xps Life's short enough without having an imperative to take the court jester's insights into political economy seriously

'he's rich a do famous'

Are you smoking his fucking book or what

his points and outlook are stupid and incoherent and dont stand by themselves in any way shape or form, whatever reason the usual suspects find against a straight white guy (private schooled wasnt he?) are as usual just the dog drooling at the dinner bell

Deems you should introduce the 1st half of that para to the 2nd half

I'm saying there's no connection

The former isn't a point the latter are holding against him?

It's easy to be cynical when a celebrity gets their photo taken with starving children or preaches about rainforests or campaigns for the removal of landmines. But if their motives, self serving or not, at least make some beneficial difference or motivate others to join in the good work, then who exactly is losing out?

http://nomorepage3.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Russell-Tweet.jpg

He's post-sexist, not a misogynist

yes russell rose from her vagina like a phoenix

The edited/missing posts here maybe have made this thread difficult to be certain in comprehension but let's be clear: Brand is an idiot. His overall message seems no more complicated than "oh no the system is broken and bad people get away with doing bad things" which is not really an insight - and that's not a message you have to be on a liberal side to identify with - and his method of dealing with that, "don't vote", is completely disempowering to the minority voices and groups that he claims to care about but actually seems to be using to massage his public ego. Like, if he can't see how saying "don't use your voice" is a contradiction to "people in power need their privilege checked", then he absolutely does not deserve any position of influence in any post-coalition voice of protest I want to be part of. I am not willing to settle for "well it's better than nothing" and I think it is patronising to think anyone should accept it.

Also I'm sure he could do something about his live set on DVD, the one where he basically says "oh Sachsgate was really just a big lol" and doesn't seem to acknowledge how #banterculture is why women still don't seem to have safe spaces or sexual liberties (because who, male or female, needs respect or privacy?), he could easily denounce it or been seen to be doing something to delete it from his career narrative.

Fuck this guy, basically

Huh so people really hate this guy? He seems relatively harmless from this side of the pond.

Why I am I not surprised that a worthless fuck like you is a Brand apologist as well as many other worthless fucking things?

Oh you

Simple explanation: the Brits have a vigourous tall poppy syndrome.

Haha

More like certain Americans suffering from fucking clueless arsewipe syndrome.

Your insightful discourse is truly delightful old chap wot wot

This poppy is just opiate for the masses

I mean, I really liked seeing Brand on MTV Dance interviewing E'd up ravers with a mix of affection and mocking between video links, and what he wrote in the Guardian after the death of Amy Winehouse about addiction seemed insightful and honest, I don't believe Brand is a creature without merit. However, much as I'm willing to engage with someone in the public sphere with a radical yet intelligent approach to the failings of the contemporary culture, in this context Brand just seems like a high school student with a set of pens and paper and a general pass in Modern Studies with poorly-conceived good intentions. And that just isn't enough.

Stephen Fry seems to get a pass unlike Brand which often surprises and disappoints me.

Fry is loathed by ilx UK massive iirc

I watched a few minutes of his thing on the Ottawa shooting - seemed OK but I can't stand to listen to him talk for very long

if ilx has taught me one thing it's that british ppl hate their celebrities, especially the ones americans have heard of

V true

It is possible to be a comedian or even a comic actor and use wit and satire and humour to make extremely relevant points about politics. Many, many comedians have done this in an extremely effective way.

It is possible to have substance abuse issues and still have relevant points to contribute. I feel like this is actually *part* of the message of the left (whatever the left is at this point) or should be - that substance abuse is an illness, not a moral failing.

However, many, many people seem to be in a total lack of understanding about what misogyny actually is. It is not some harmless foible or personality trait tacked onto an otherwise-alright human being. It is a refusal to recognise half the human race as fully human. It is a deep and perhaps fundamental flaw in a person's entire worldview. A flaw which is deeply incompatible with the fundamental aims of the left movement - how can you talk about rights for all and justice for all, when your very concept of the "all" that is human excludes half of humanity?

His 'overall message' is meaningless if it only applies to one half of humans. That is not justice. And someone who says facile things like 'Oh, just ignore the misogyny, concentrate on the message' - I am concentrating on the message very clearly. But the fact that a person is willing to ignore the bit of the bit of the message that doesn't apply to them tells me a lot about who *they* consider fully human and worthy of consideration.

'Equality for women' is not some disregardable add-on bonus to be applied 'after the revolution' (whenever that comes - I mean, spare me) and pushed aside in favour of 'more important messages' for now. If it is not part of your movement from day one, that movement is meaningless.

I was thinking of this in relation to Beppe Grillo/Five Star. At least he is not starting a political party and movement/doing anything like work or activism. It could be a lot worse.

Amen, Branwell - I do understand your point fully.

typical brits with their tall misogynist syndrome

Branwell has a good point for every thread - and we all enjoyed reading it once again today.

there's nothing those grumpy limeys hate more than an unrepentant scumbag who sets off a fuckton of screaming alarm bells about what an obvious creep he is!!

I was OK with him til I found out Americans had heard of him.

probs worth pointing out that he's still a relatively obscure figure even to The Man In The Street. his Facebook page has 2.7 million likes which is pretty weedy on the celeb scale of things.

Presumably Robbie Williams' 2nd baby birth video is getting millions of new likes as we speak.

I find it hard to argue with the point that Brand has got a lot of people talking and thinking about politics and speaks to a large constituency which is alienated, angry and inchoate. But we've had a year of this now and it's time other voices were given even an ounce of the attention he's been getting.

Re: misogyny, I covered David Icke's Wembley show for work and was struck by how good this constituency is at compartmentalising. Lots of people I spoke to didn't buy his central space-lizard hypothesis but were willing to set it to one side and concentrate on the bits that they agreed with. I think Brand fans do the same with his enormous flaws. I live in hope that other, better people will be able to harness this energy.

The one thing that always struck me about him is that he does give the impression that it's all "considered", that doesn't mean he's right always but I've not seen anyone that can argue and make connections as fast.

It still comes down to which side you tend to favour. I've seen his initial Newsnight interview with Paxman, my impression is that he held his own and came out 'on top' if that was the important thing (which I don't think it is).

Other colleagues told me they thought Paxman 'won' and made Russell look completely ridiculous.

TBQH, I'd put Russell Brand on the same level, political standingwise, as Jeremy Clarkson.

i.e. it's meant to entertain, make people 'think', but you would not want them 'in charge' or anything like it.

I don't even think they say what they truly think, more what their respective characters want you to think they think.

Everybody is very good at compartmentalising and overlooking when they agree, and very good at decompartmentalising and sleuthing, when they dont

Because they can say "I agree with that" or "I don't agree with any of it"

no

but being able to compententalize isnt a virtue in itself

The one actor/comedian everyone could agree on liking, John Sessions, has turned out to be a UKIP voter :(((