Ongoing U.S Police Brutality and Corruption Discussion Thread

Is that in Washington Square Park? Fuck, we should have gone out today. Were talking about it but the only event invite I'd seen made today's activities seem really Anonymous-y and, I dunno, hard to verbalize, but the bad side of a lot of the "eager aggressive white college types joining good causes for the wrong reasons" stuff that's been discussed recently in this thread.

still going:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/lippylulu

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/14/john-crawford-girlfriend-questioned-walmart-police-shot-dead

CHRIST

aaaand

http://deadspin.com/cleveland-cops-demand-apology-call-activist-browns-pla-1671032511

i understand that the unions have exactly one audience, but damn man know when to just STFU

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/11/black-officers-torn_n_6310826.html

psychopath

Andrew Hawkins' response is pretty fantastic:

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=40811

pretty sure I got eliminated from a jury pool this afternoon because I told the judge and attorneys that 'in 2014 it's difficult for me to be impartial' in a case in which a man is charged with resisting arrest without violence.

I filled out my potential juror paperwork recently after they hunted me down and threatened me with whatever they threaten you with. I'm never getting on a jury though.

"Have you ever had a negative interaction with the police?"

"I don't believe in the legitimacy of the state, especially their exercise of power through violence, or threat of violence, against citizens. So to answer your question...all of them?"

idk im pretty down with the idea of jury nullification as a form of protest

what do we think about this new Wisconsin law?

Someone on my fb tried to tell me jury nullification is void in New York State for some reason which he's a lawyer so he might be right but he's also a libertarian ie "White men are the REAL victims around here" so I usually assume he's wrong about everything.

I'm not really sure how jury nullification could ever be void, I think all it ultimately is is a post hoc description of an outcome not like an identifiable tactic or procedure or whatever

I mean as long as you have a system where juries are required in criminal cases and acquittals are not subject to appeal by the prosecution

i believe people should lie during jury selection if they want to nullify. idk what void even means in that context, but in a lot of places juries can't be asked to nullify or instructed that it's ok. anyway people should try to get on juries.

Unfortunately despite the common law origins of this idea, and a noble history, in New York which is the only venue I can speak about with authority it is prohibitied both by the oath a jury takes that it will abide by the law as instructed whether or not it agrees with the law and further, in the civil contect, with a judge's right upon motion to set aside a jury verdict.

?????

I mean obv I will lie to get on a jury, that's the only way I'd ever make it.

ok that guy writes like a fucking dickhead

otm

I did say.

ok well the answer to the question, can you still do it in NYS, is yes, because after the jury says not guilty no one can change it

Sorry to digress for a sec but I'm really struggling with a neighborhood newsgroup in which some pretty nauseating things are being written. I've taken on the lead in "constructively engaging" with at least the more reasonable-seeming of the ostrich-with-head-in-sand posters, but there are times when such engagement begins to feel like bestowal of legitimacy (not to mention I'm just feeling really pissed off). Trying to hang in there but I fucking have my limits y'know?

I still haven't figured out the balance of legitimizing their humanity and also telling them to go fuck their terrible wrongheaded opinions

Ayuh.

It depends on the person and their relationship to me. People who aren't very strongly connected to you don't care if you think they're wrong. So for casual acquaintances, I'm not sure it's a very effective tool. For close ppl, friends and family, though, it can be more effective over time to just keep building up the world as a place where they are wrong, backwards, losing, becoming irrelevant. Which, if culture change is happening, is hopefully all true!

I'm not nec trying to change ppl's minds in one conversation, because that would be exhausting and burn me out, and also cos I don't think that's how people actually come to believe in things. It's more about being one note among many, over many occurrences until their reality really does look different to them because they start to notice different things. A clergy person who happens to say that love is more important than judgment, a chance comment by another parent at school, hearing other people say hateful things and recognizing them as such and starting to see how you've been perceived when that was you....

taking notes here for the next time I get into this with my son-in-law

I find that in arguments over this issue I have to refer to authority, and I find that wearying. I find the fact of thousands of black people protesting an authoritative enough statement that some concern needs better attention.

It's a failure of leadership, too - I'll bet a lot of these "traditionalists" go to church, where are their ministers or church authorities to iterate what scripture truly says? The Gospels don't regard the taking of life so lightly.

Thx for your comments, I find them helpful. Have more to say on this but short on time today.

Every conversation that a white person has with another white person about ending racism is one less conversation that some unfortunate Black person has to have on top of living their own lives (full of racism and racist microaggressions).

I just heard second-hand today that some elected officials around here have been known to say things in public discussion (in regards to challenges faced by public education) like "Well, some families raise their kids to be basketball players...."

I can never go into politics, there just aren't enough opportunities to say "FFFFF UUUUU."

Also sometimes ppl who have experienced valid kinds of oppression of their own (just not RACIAL or often gendered oppression) have already mentally ceded their right to object to what was done to them. They've internalized that if they got hurt or disadvantaged by whatever it was (a learning disability, poverty, PTSD, abuse histories, immigration status, cultural isolation, etc) that it wasn't significant or "It's just the way the cookie crumbles" or whatever. You have to make the best of it, they've told themselves, and they've probably long ago stopped objecting to things that mock their former state, because...I dunno, I guess they've internalized that they don't deserve their own anger?

Sometimes having cut yourself off from recognizing the kinds of privilege you DIDN'T have makes you unable to acknowledge the kinds you do have. Sometimes ppl with every kind of privilege are still just fucking dickheads but sometimes you can encourage even a straight white dude (for instance) to decolonize his mind.

I went to a screening last night of a 1968 documentary by William Greaves, Still a Brother: Inside the Negro Middle Class, (http://www.bam.org/film/2014/still-a-brother) in Brooklyn and what was startling about seeing it with an 80% people-of-color audience -- lots of students and people in the arts -- is that though it dealt with its moment in history, during the interviewees' accounts (and clips) of the Newark 'riots' or speculation on the utility of black nationalism and the impenetrability of the white power structure, people were audibly reacting to the words and images with "mm hmm" and "tell it" because, re social dynamics, NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED IN 46 YEARS. People are angry.

In the discussion afterward, an African American woman in her 20s from a conservative Christian background in Texas said she asks her mother what the ministers are saying on Sunday about the events of the last month, and what she heard was "Oh, we don't talk about it." This was in counterpoint to one of the panelists, a director of black theatre/film in his 70s, talking about the church as a force for change in the King era.

I think one thing this new racial justice moment/movement has shown us is a gap between Black leadership establishment who may have charged forward during a previous era but gotten comfortable/benefited from where they ended up and whose prescription for Black equality is now respectability/exceptionalism.

Young activists are definitely not taking time out of organizing their peers out of dying in the street, or fighting for justice for LGBTQ PoCs, long enough to take those "leaders" seriously anymore. Especially when leaders slip and show that they're not fighting for EVERYONE'S rights. Faith leaders who preach anti-gay sermons? Nope. Racial justice advocates who tell Black women to stay in their homes and light candles and pray for their men? Nope. Community leaders who want more after-school activities to keep boys out of "trouble" but don't think about Black and brown girls as being at risk because "fast-tailed girls" get what they deserve? BIG NOPE.

And these young organizers are getting their funding in new ways--by donation and crowdsourcing, in a lot of cases. So as Brittany at @UrbIntelligence said, "Your mission is shifted by your funding. This is one way our work is controlled. [With] coalitions of young people, money don't mean shit, because we don't get it from you."

I wonder if the secret history of the conservative movement is its understanding of how well black churches galvanized public and political opinion; did the evangelical movement rise as an Earth-3 version?

“The clergy in Oakland have not really come together,” said Bishop Joseph Simmons, pastor at Greater St. Paul Church in West Oakland. “We’re still trying to figure out where we fit in in all of this. This generation doesn’t have respect for the church, and we don’t have the power we once had.”

Scott Walker says he's ready to call in the Nat'l Guard for any protests against the upcoming decision re: the cop who killed the mentally ill Dontre Hamilton earlier this year. Some background on Hamilton:

http://onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/dontrehamillton.html

NY cop killing thing sad and stupid and counterproductive but cant say I'm really surprised

Isn't it crazy how we're not allowed to say he was a mentally ill lone wolf

Isn't it crazy how we're not supposed to talk about how he targeted his girlfriend first before finding a squad car with a lady cop in it

Corey Robin has been on point on Twitter tonight in finding frightening cop rhetoric in response to this awful tragedy and awful justice minded mistake

He called it a Dolchstosslegende and during in NY tonight watching blue and reds reflect in the clouds that's hard to unhear.

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the skills needed to be a (good) police officer, but they get paid to have those skills. Some of those lectures about what attitude we ought to have clearly come from people of privilege who live in low crime areas.

Every time there is a shooting in my community, I think, "we don't get compensated or applauded for living here." Keep that in mind as you see "those people" chided for their disrespect.

i don't know if it makes sense to have an attitude about police officers one way or the other. some of them commit horrific abuses; others aspire to be noble public servants, whatever you think of the actual value of their activities. it's like with teachers: as a class they are not good or bad. there are some lazy, awful teachers and there are also some that are wonderful, who make a positive impact on scores of students per year. depending on people's attitude toward unions, they tend to emphasize one type of teacher over the other but either way it's a distortion.

this isn't to say there aren't cultural problems within the police force that cause violence to be normalized. this isn't to say that these problems aren't, in the end, really just manifestations of racism. but this can be addressed without making assumptions about random cops. police officers are part of the working class -- their interests, in the end, are ultimately connected to those of the people in the communities they clash with, just as their interests were bound to those of the occupy protesters several years ago. the cops who were murdered yesterday were not white. the police, as an institution, defend white supremacy and the property rights of the 1% but they do so, often, against the interests of police officers. if you want to think about inequality in a structural sense, it is clear that cops are the victims of these structures even as they are their most visible enforcers.

that said, this is interesting:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/08/when-will-they-shoot/

statistically, police work is not as dangerous as many other jobs, such as roofing or driving a cab. also cops kill vastly more people than kill them -- 51 police killed last year versus over 400 people killed by police. this is clearly a nightmare and needs to change immediately

xp

sure, but it's your closing line that makes such equanimity hard to maintain. they are the part of the structure holding the gun.

yeah but if the goal is reform i don't think inciting individuals against the police via campaigns like ACAB -- which i didn't know about until yesterday -- is going to be much help.

because the issue, ultimately, isn't with the police, but with the society that provides them with fucked up laws to enforce and protects them when they, out of paranoia, kill people