Defend Phil Collins

i imagine that there's a cryptic reference to linda mccartney's legendary backing vocals in that practical joke

that is a fantastic fantastic story

yeah, reading that was a cracking start to the day.

i keep hearing this thread title as the name of an action movie

starring Jason Statham.

i keep hearing this thread title as the name of an action movie

ahahah. after "saving private ryan".

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Phil-Collins-made-an-honorary-Texan-by-the-6127933.php

"You'll Be In My Heart" is the most touching Academy Award winning song from a Disney movie released in 1999, hands down.

Been looking forward to this interview...I'm only halfway through but Phil sounds like a battered and humble(d?) dude these days.
http://www.thetrapset.net/127-phil-collins-genesis-brand-x-phil-collins/

It's easy to think, due to the number of years that he'd been around and the amount of things he'd been involved with, that Phil Collins was older at his No Jacket Required commercial peak than he actually was, but in fact he was only 34.

Anyway, while I've a soft spot for Collins fronted Genesis (in particular A Trick of the Tail, Duke and Invisible Touch), I never really warmed to his solo stuff for many years. However, recently I've begun to appreciate some - although not all - of the tracks from the first four solo albums. There's some genuinely nice stuff on Face Value and Hello, I Must Be Going, and I've grown fond of some of the "darker" moments on No Jacket Required ... 'Long Long Way to Go' and 'Take Me Home' in particular, although 'One More Night' has been hitting the spot for me recently. Of course, I'm still not 100% taken with his excessive use of horns, but on some tracks they work well (as on 'Something Happened On the Way to Heaven', for example)

...But Seriously is a better record than most give it credit for, actually.

But yeah, as the years go by I'm beginning to find the level of scorn that Collins attracts to be ridiculously over the top pretty much most of the time. There are, and have been, far far far bigger jerks in music, and a lot of the bile thrown Collins' way seems petty.

Compared to Billy Joel he's practically a saint.

He's good and defensible up and through No Jacket, and with Genesis even the last record. I don't think I've heard his last four solo records, and don't recognize a single song title save "Wear My Hat," which I only know from when I saw him live last tour and it was a goofy novelty number. He's playing here Monday but I don't think I'll be able to catch it. US tour at least is relatively modest, heard it might have been due to concerns about his health.

Like, on one hand you have disgruntled Genesis fans who blame Collins for the way the band developed in the '80s, which isn't really fair given that all members of Genesis were equally responsible - not to mention they were making music appropriate to, inspired by and a reaction to the time. If they'd put an album like Nursery Cryme out in 1981, they would have been criticised for it. On another hand, it just seems like sour grapes and jealousy that Collins was everywhere and super successful on a huge scale.

(x-post)

But he worked for it! He worked his butt off for it. And he was nothing but a drummer her still would have been one of the best drummers of all time.

He's playing here Monday but I don't think I'll be able to catch it. US tour at least is relatively modest, heard it might have been due to concerns about his health.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:48 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I've heard he's actually sitting down for the gigs and struggles to walk without a cane. I haven't seen any footage of his recent tour though, so I don't know what shape his voice is in right now.

I've begun to realise recently that for a guy that made his name as one of the greatest drummers in progressive rock, that I really love his voice and find his singing - when it's at its finest - unbeatable.

Like, fucking hell his vocal on 'Mama' is some real hairs-standing-up-on-the-back-of-the-neck shit.

as per my previously mentioned charity boxset find, I have enjoyed the albums far more than I ever expected to.
basically, yeah, he definitely got a lot more shit than he deserved.

But he worked for it! He worked his butt off for it. And he was nothing but a drummer her still would have been one of the best drummers of all time.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:58 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Absolutely, you can't really fault his work ethic. Not just Genesis and solo, but Brand X and all those guest appearances. Speaking of which, is there a list anywhere of all the stuff Collins played on over the years?

It's funny - there's been more than a few artists over the years that have been all about clinging to their supposed "arty" credentials, and just as many that want to be million-selling pop stars. During his career, Collins has been both a huge pop star and a cult art-rock hero.

“Misunderstanding”is pretty great but “Easy Lover” is f’in all-time

Absolutely, you can't really fault his work ethic. Not just Genesis and solo, but Brand X and all those guest appearances. Speaking of which, is there a list anywhere of all the stuff Collins played on over the years?

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/phil-collins-plays-well-with-others/

“Misunderstanding”is pretty great but “Easy Lover” is f’in all-time

― calstars, Thursday, October 18, 2018 7:20 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I love both, fwiw!

Yeah turrican you are def otm

collins drumming on gabriel 3 all time

Just found out Phil sang this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyagd2EvwDU

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/phil-collins-plays-well-with-others/

― mark e, Thursday, October 18, 2018 7:23 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Even that doesn't seem to be close to exhaustive - the people in the comments section are pointing out so much that's missing that it's making my head spin.

Talking about Gabriel, nobody ever thought he was the fucking antichrist when he did his version of a pop album with So.

"Just found out Phil sang this"

it says "vocals: phil" on the back of the album sleeve after the song title!

I was listening to ...But Seriously and Face Value when I was in grade 4, so he was among my very first favorite artists.
It's probably anathema here, but as a soft song, I really liked Another Day in Paradise when I heard it. Apparently there was a film involved that I haven't watched (was it Jungle Book ? I like the Jungle Book).
As others said, his music is pretty innocuous.

“Now she don’t even know my name / but I think she likes me just the same” story of my life

Talking about Gabriel, nobody ever thought he was the fucking antichrist when he did his version of a pop album with /So/.

"Just found out Phil sang this"

it says "vocals: phil" on the back of the album sleeve after the song title!

fwiw he only plays on a few tracks on Gabriel 3.

The hate toward him has softened in the last decade or so. Partly it's that he's no longer inescapable on TV and radio, but also that his influence as a pop songwriter is more enduring than anyone would have thought in the 80s.

Reading his book really put things in perspective for me. There was a period he was actively in Genesis and solo, both stadium level endeavors, plus also playing drums for Robert Plant (on tour!) and Eric Clapton, plus producing and guesting, plus sometimes acting, plus playing any number of benefits. The bulk of this was between 1980 and, say, 1986. Just a ton of work.

phil collins is good.

as is billy joel.

so are the eagles.

all in a "take a couple/few tracks per album and ignore most of the output" kind of way but still

heard "something happened on the way to heaven" in the food court the over day and it brightened my day

Reallllly don't think Phil was the driving force behind pushing Genesis towards 'pop' when Mike and Tony were the principal songwriters throughout their transitional period (and beyond)

It was totally the other guys pushing pop, after the departure of Steve Hackett. it just so happened that the band's first pop success, after Follow You Follow Me at least, was a Phil track iirc. Misunderstanding? plus his solo stuff gave him clout.

I think Follow You Follow Me was Mike-driven but a group effort

Granted 'Misunderstanding' was a hit but those three post-Hackett albums are dominated by Mike and Tony's 'pop' songs with Phil being a relatively figure

*marginal

I ignorantly just assumed it was Phil pushing the pop since he's the frontman + there's all these Genesis songs I used to think were Phil solo songs. I don't really know Genesis. I love "turn it on again", that is my jam

Yeah. Along the same lines I was baffled as a kid looking for “invisible touch” on the PC solo albums

yeah, brimstead, it wasn't Collins.

'Invisible Touch' began life much the same way as 'Turn It On Again'... as a Mike Rutherford guitar riff! This whole thing about Collins pushing the band towards "pop" is a line that's even people who are allegedly hardcore Genesis fans follow, which I've never understood.

Why would he need me to defend him? This thread makes no sense.

Problem for PC (not that it's done him much commercial harm) is that he doesn't come across as particularly likeable.
The official take on classic-era Genesis personality types is:
Rutherford: Likeable
Hackett: Likeable
Gabriel: Likeable/creative
Collins: Del-Boy
Banks: Passive-aggressive control freak

Banks is the only one that seems like an asshole.

I think the Collins bad rap came from his later solo career, actually, when he had no one to blame for his mawkishness but himself. Which maybe he always veered toward, anyway, but minus the musicianship/proggy veneer or cool spare arrangements he became mired in mushy A/C.

Reallllly don't think Phil was the driving force behind pushing Genesis towards 'pop' when Mike and Tony were the principal songwriters throughout their transitional period (and beyond)

― PaulTMA, Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:36 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was totally the other guys pushing pop, after the departure of Steve Hackett. it just so happened that the band's first pop success, after Follow You Follow Me at least, was a Phil track iirc. Misunderstanding? plus his solo stuff gave him clout.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:39 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Invisible Touch' began life much the same way as 'Turn It On Again'... as a Mike Rutherford guitar riff! This whole thing about Collins pushing the band towards "pop" is a line that's even people who are allegedly hardcore Genesis fans follow, which I've never understood.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, October 19, 2018 1:28 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've heard this a couple of times on ILM and it may well be true as a lot of you guys know a lot more about Collins/Genesis than I do. Still, though, as early as 1973, doesn't "More Fool Me" (Collins/Rutherford?) stand out pretty dramatically from everything else on Selling England by the Pound? I think it does anyway. And, as with brimstead, a lot of 80s-onward (esp mid-80s-onward) Genesis does seem more of a piece with solo Collins than with Gabriel-era Genesis to my ears. Afaict, he is credited as a co-writer on most or all of it. I think Turrican gave the example of solo Gabriel: to me, this is instructive because solo Gabriel (even his pop moves) does feel much more like the version of Genesis that I love responding to the 80s and 90s. Could just be that Gabriel was important enough as a frontman presence for me, more so than any of KC's singers or even Jon Anderson (whom I like a lot), idk.

Gabriel also experimented a lot and pushed boundaries, whereas Phil and Genesis, for whatever reason, established the default sound of the decade.