Better Call Saul

_I wonder what transpires between now and breaking bad where Mike is able to see Kaylee unsupervised but the mom won't even talk to him_

...he gets work as muscle for a meth lord?

last line of the episode was something like "you know what happened next, the question is can you live with it" -- so maybe she decides she can't?

Yeah, that was my though too... She knows Mike is absolutely dedicated to his family, so she still lets her look after Kaylee (makes being a single mom easier too), but after he revealed all that she can't bear to look him in the eyes anymore.

"so she still lets him look after Kaylee"

maybe those maxi pads weren't just* for the wounds, then

Felix will wash himself, but Oscar won't. He just won't!

that was the saddest ending for anything i've seen in a long while.

I feel like this show is waaaay better at dealing with the gray areas of ethics/morality, or at least the pull/descent of/into unethical/illegal behavior than Breaking Bad ever was. I mean, I never thought that was the point of Breaking Bad, but at certain earlier points it was, and many people seemed to think that's what the series was about.

^^^ thinking the exact same thing last night. In a lot of ways they've (oddly) made Saul a more sympathetic character, a human with actual ethical dilemmas in a way Walt never was beyond maybe the first couple episodes of BB

and I like how this isn't a show where every episode hinges on some sort of high-stakes tension/crisis that he has to weasel out of, it's much more subtle and character-driven than the sort of mechanical "how will they get out of THIS" constructs of so much of BB

otm. enjoying this show for that exact reason.

also the sex toilet scene.

curious as to where they're going to go over the next few episodes, as this last one seemed to wrap up a lot of the existing plot arcs.

Whatsisface the gangbanger will certainly rear his head in the next ep or two.

ya- i thought he was shaping up to be the main antagonist, but he's vanished completely.

Interesting that they still keep on depicting Jimmy as someone who does the right thing, in the end... I wonder what his point of no return will be, when he'll turn from "Jimmy" to "Saul"? The plot seems to be wired so that something will happen to Chuck, and that's when Jimmy is lost. Chuck is clearly set up as his moral anchor, Jimmy didn't even want him to find out about the billboard stunt, so I don't think he could become fully crooked if Chuck was still around. (Also, could he ever confess to Chuck he changed the family name they share into something Jewish-sounding just for profits? Though I guess there's still the possibility that big law firm will force him to change his name to avoid trademark infringement.)

well we know Chuck exits the picture at some point, so yeah I think you're right that how that happens is going to be a big turning point in the show and for Jimmy

well, this last episode the only reason he "did the right thing" was to help out his lawyer friend Kim. i was guessing that as soon as she leaves the picture, he'll have no motive to be a better person any more.

^^^ thinking the exact same thing last night. In a lot of ways they've (oddly) made Saul a more sympathetic character, a human with actual ethical dilemmas in a way Walt never was beyond maybe the first couple episodes of BB

Yeah but Jimmy has a future and Walt, even after remission, never really did. So, yeah, BCS will be a lot of grey area and what can I live with as opposed to BB, in Walt's case, being more of a the system fucked me over for 50 years and now I'm going to fuck with it. Jesse had a ton of moral grey area.

well, this last episode the only reason he "did the right thing" was to help out his lawyer friend Kim.

You could say that he helped the Kettlemans too, at least their kids, by forcing them to accept the deal... Though of course he benefitted from that too.

Walt, even after remission, never really did.

Was that really case? When the cancer went into remission, I don't think the doctor said that it will inevitably come back and that Walt will inevitably die within a couple of years. It felt more like that, after the remission, the "I have no future" thing was just something Walt kept telling himself so he'd have no reason to quit being Heisenberg. Wasn't there even some episode where Walt confessed that he felt lost, because with the cancer diagnosis he had a clear direction in life, and after the remission that direction was gone?

This show is great, I love the Kettlemans, apparently Albuquerque is full of inept would-be Walt & Skylars (and Jesse Pinkmans). You get the sense that BB Saul initially thought he was dealing with another pair of idiot clowns until things got real.

I'm enjoying the loose yet controlled plotting. It seems to be becoming a tradition to have the first act of each episode dealing with aftermath of the previous one, before moving on to its main storyline.

"The 25th Hour with Maude and Ned Flanders"

Also, could he ever confess to Chuck he changed the family name they share into something Jewish-sounding just for profits?

chuck suggested the name change in the first episode

or at least suggested jimmy not use the family name for his firm, same diff

Something about this latest episode tipped it over into "better than Breaking Bad" territory for me.

I was hesitant to say that but I am leaning that way too

it's pretty different, but in ways that are more appealing to me, I guess? And Bob is just killin it, he's created a character that's much more fun to watch than Walt

I would guess that the pacing is among the more common complaints that anyone complaining about the show might have, but I love it. Everything is given room to breathe as if it were a film from the '70s.

ha yes there is something v 70s-ish about it a la the Friends of Eddie Coyle or Charlie Varrick or something

Yeah, Charlie Varrick is a great point of comparison.

/well, this last episode the only reason he "did the right thing" was to help out his lawyer friend Kim./

You could say that he helped the Kettlemans too, at least their kids, by forcing them to accept the deal... Though of course he benefitted from that too.

/Walt, even after remission, never really did./

Was that really case? When the cancer went into remission, I don't think the doctor said that it will inevitably come back and that Walt will inevitably die within a couple of years. It felt more like that, after the remission, the "I have no future" thing was just something Walt kept telling himself so he'd have no reason to quit being Heisenberg. Wasn't there even some episode where Walt confessed that he felt lost, because with the cancer diagnosis he had a clear direction in life, and after the remission that direction was gone?

Well yeah that was a huge turning point when Walt went into remission. I'm not really talking about the cancer per se just that I never felt that Walt would be alive at the end of the series.

the final scene with jimmy kicking the door - i wasn't entirely sure i followed this. did losing the money from the kettlemans mean he wouldn't be able to afford his new office, or was he upset because his friend was staying with the rival company?

i took that to mean he couldnt afford the new office

kim had already politely declined his offer

Betsy Kettleman is such a great character.

"Don't look back, honey. Always forward. Always in life, look forward."

yeah, that was a great line. she's wonderful.

Something about this latest episode tipped it over into "better than Breaking Bad" territory for me.

eh this is crazytalk

I like this show a lot but it's still just breaking bad minus the leads at this point. 7 episodes in and michael mckean is the closest thing to a memorable character who wasn't in the original show.

pacing feels very different from BB to me

looking at wikipedia - only 1 out of the 7 episodes so far wasn't written by someone who worked on breaking bad

nobody is gonna want to fuck w/ the formula when it works, but if they really wanted to make a real break w/ breaking bad they shoulda put it in another city and not brought back mike as a lead

idg yr criticisms - it can't be better than the first series, because it's about the same people? no one's arguing that the show's not set in the same locale, with the same characters, etc. but it's tone and direction and the kind of stories/conflicts it's focusing on are pretty different. and like I said upthread, I prefer Jimmy as a protagonist to Walt, he's just more interesting/funnier/more nuanced. Walt was pretty one-note - and that was his main virtue! - but BB wasn't really interested in moral ambiguities the way BCS is shaping up to be.

'Walt was pretty one-note - and that was his main virtue! - but BB wasn't really interested in moral ambiguities the way BCS is shaping up to be.'

I don't even know how to answer this

IDGI either, the show is doing something vv different from BB, even if it's using some of the same visual language and is technically set in the same universe. It's primarily going for pathos and humor as opposed to tension (as opposed to the other way around), for starters.

anyway another issue w/ the show is that it kinda boxed itself in w/ the timeline - some stuff is gonna happen, jimmy will become saul, but there's kinda only so much that can happen. it's really hard to imagine this lasting for 5 seasons and not because 'it's not good' but just because we already now where it ends and it's not a particularly exciting place.

if it had been a sequel it would probably be harder to sell it as 'a different show' but the writers would have a lot more room to go wild w/ the character and locations.

It's primarily going for pathos and humor as opposed to tension (as opposed to the other way around), for starters.

yeah but the pathos and humor is exactly the same pathos and humor that the character had when he was on a show called breaking bad

if they really wanted to make a real break w/ breaking bad they shoulda put it in another city and not brought back mike as a lead

yeah: also not brought back Saul, and called it Better Call Saul

big mistake there, I bet they feel embarrassed

No there is def a different level of pathos to saul on this show

He was never shown wrestling w his conscience on BB

re: the timeline, I may eat my words later but I'm willing to bet the series catches us up to a certain point and then leapfrogs to after the events of BB

(I mean, it kinda HAS to at some point, given he flashforward that opens the series, but I'm hoping it does it significantly before the end of its run)