Better Call Saul

Mike was important to the organisation because the rest of the Fring muscle were all complete fucking cretins.

I'm not sure I find the story of Mike's sons murder entirely plausible (his dad was a cop also on the take--seems like there are many ways of playing this short of Serpico-ing him).

Am I the only one getting a blackmail vibe from Mike's daughter-in-law?

Not a blackmail vibe so much as a 'morality-clouding proximity to ill-gotten $$$' vibe, a la Skyler White or Carmella Soprano.

the mike episode a couple/few weeks back was a stright up masterpiece, mike is so good, they shd have a mike show too

― lag∞n, Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:39 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed, getting the sense BCS is gonna be almost as much the mike ehrmantraut hour as it is the saul origin/conclusion story although saul will prob remain the primary focus

xp good comparisons

Not a blackmail vibe so much as a 'morality-clouding proximity to ill-gotten $$$' vibe, a la Skyler White or Carmella Soprano.

Yeah, that was my thought too, but at least Skyler they'd already established her as a complex enough character so we'd understand where she was coming from, whereas with Stacey it came out of the blue, because we don't really know anything about her.

this bathroom legal documentation to serve the corrupt retirement home owners is amazing, some tour de force legal work

Chuck looking like he's in a catatonic state until he calmly demands twenty million dollars

the sandpiper crossing attorney is Dennis Boutsikaris who Law & Order fiends will remember from many L&O/SVU/CI episodes, including at least one stone classic

mike is unambiguously 100% business and his business happens to be criminal at this point

no matter what position you put him in, he gets results

Like I said

I don't know what to make of this show but it certainly ain't bad

latest episode might've been the best since "five-O" (the all-mike hour)

"pimento is a cheese. some call it the caviar of the south."

Welp now we know what's in Odenkirk's Emmy reel

Fucking Chuck.

great episode.

Bob O has been stupendous in this so far, gilligan is like some kinda middle-aged comedian emmy whisperer

best episode yet

chuck's cruel speech at the end was so much like something walter white would say to crush jesse. monkey with a machine gun!

what a prick

That was heartbreaking. Chuck is a monster.

The quality of this show is amazing.

What is really hitting home to me is just how realistic this whole thing actually is. Chuck has the self-righteous importance of an accomplished lawyer and from that springs his belief that he can simply deem things to be so, and they will and they will be right. I have seen and experienced this FAR too many times to have any qualms about the portrayal's realism. This type of shit happens every day in law offices all over the country.

What I find to be so compelling is that Hamlin turns out to be not that bad of a guy, and actually may be somewhat of a good guy. From where he's sitting, he didn't need to give any more of an explanation to Kim or to Jimmy. Jimmy called him a pig fucker and declined the deal. But because of Kim's plea, he relented and convinced her to go and talk to Jimmy one more time to take the deal ($20k + whatever 20% of the final settlement would be - assuming $20m, that's $4m to Jimmy). The sigh and look he gave in his office after he just couldn't convince himself of his own bullshit was really telling. He demoted Kim because she fucked up with the Kettlemans. But he could have just let Jimmy stew and hate him and not done anything else. But (I think) he recognized that this was some class A lawyering by Jimmy (which it was, regardless of where he went to law school), and decided that he would do what he could to help Jimmy out.

This show is good like a good pair of broken in shoes or a car with a well-driven and well-maintained engine - nothing new, nothing novel, but it does everything right and fucks nothing up. I cannot wait for the finale, and for season two.

I didn't quite take it like that as far as Hamlin. I think he told Kim that it was Chuck's decision, and that's what convinced her to to try to get jimmy to take the deal. I don't think he was trying to help jimmy out of the good of his heart. I think Chuck just as likely convinced Hamlin to give him that good a deal.

That was heartbreaking. Chuck is a monster.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, March 31, 2015 9:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've gone back and forth a bit about how much of a monster Chuck showed himself to be here.

On the one hand, he's got many years of experience with his little brother being a career con artist. And we know that he turns out to be somewhat right about what Jimmy might get up to with a law degree at his disposal.

But then again, of course, what Chuck did is probably the very thing that guarantees Jimmy will backslide. And he can't see that because his vision is obscured by snobbery and by the bogus belief that somehow only he has worked hard to get where he is.

That scene was totally heartbreaking. I love this show.

Re Hamlin: I disagree. At the very least, that's $20k gone. Any lawyer who is in business for themselves would never do something like that without some sort of motivation behind it. Now, it could be that his motivation was to keep Kim loyal and still on his side as an associate. That's a very real possibility.

What Chuck did was monstrous, definitely. I wouldn't give him credit for an accurate prediction on Jimmy backsliding so much as blame him for leaving his brother little other choice.

Sibling rivalry (you're not my peer) is a better explanation for his motivation than snobbery. Chuck's standards are high -- just because Jimmy has shown he can meet and even exceed them is no reason to believe they've actually been equals all along.

Chuck's psychosomatic illness fits that pattern. Jimmy is at his beck and call, but he's OK with that: Jimmy has enough compassion for his brother not to point out that catering to his sensitivities is a needless waste of energy and time. Chuck does nothing to return the favor. Now that he's getting better (still sweating under the tinfoil lining his suit jacket), he gets a hero's welcome for overcoming nothing more than the power of his imagination, while Jimmy gets to lug the boxes and buy the kerosene and probably hand-stitch the lining into his suit too.

Chuck is used to having the world revolve around him. Just to make sure that never changes, he stabs his brother in the back.

Re Hamlin: I disagree. At the very least, that's $20k gone. Any lawyer who is in business for themselves would never do something like that without some sort of motivation behind it. Now, it could be that his motivation was to keep Kim loyal and still on his side as an associate. That's a very real possibility.

Hamlin's moral code is a complete mystery which is why I love that character. At a superficial level he's a dick but his actions are basically rational and all a part of the gig.

In a town apparently full of would-be Walter Whites, they're setting Jimmy up as the anti-Walt in a lot of ways - we're seeing him pushed down his path through the tyranny of low expectations rather than Walt's own astronomically high ones. I suppose the journey from Jimmy to Saul is about how long he takes to be beaten down and accept them.

The scene with Mike in the car park was flat out amazing.

Was half expecting the pill buyer to be Gus; Nacho was my second guess.

Woah. Chuck's speech was absolutely brutal. Was not expecting that Hamlin's dickery was a front with Chuck pulling the strings; playing the part of a dick was all business.

Reckon's there are number of motivations for Chuck: self-righteous, snobbery and sibling rivalry, yes. One of embarrassment, too - that his fuck up little brother can go all the way from Slippin' Jimmy, work his arse off and then become his peer? And embarrassment on a superficial level - Jimmy's personality isn't what you call 'corporate'.

Mike's side story was pretty damn fun!

I am enjoying the surprising lack of cynicism in this show. It feels refreshing to have a lead character (especially compared to BB but also a lot of TV serials - Mad Men etc) who is drawn so sympathetically. If Walter White was a good baddy, Jimmy is a bad goody. Or is it the other way round? At this stage, Jimmy has something rare in narrative today: a social conscience and a drive that isn't necessarily about an end-game. Of course he wants to be successful and accrue wealth/status as a lawyer, but somehow his conscience still affects the way he goes about things. He's seems genuinely selfless in his regard of Kim and Chuck, his elder clients etc... He takes huge risks, but he's not an 'ends justify the means' sociopath in the guise of Walter White.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/160ad915f6cd4adf60ed417578088f8f/tumblr_nlezlz96ae1tqy47po1_500.jpg

Jimmy is a good baddy Yeah, I think we're invited to connect his idealism x shadiness, his struggle for balance, with Mike's honor-among-thieves lesson (J. really didn't want to take the Kettlemen pay-off at first, 'til Mrs. K. presented it as a consultation fee, not a bribe, but when he did, it was sooo useful). I figured there would be a moment of at least partial disillusionment (though he alwsys seemed to be trying to do right by all his BB clients, def. incl. trying to talk sanity to Walt and Jesse, finally saving Walt's ass as he saved his own) and/or turning aside from the obsession with The Firm But hadn't consciously expected this, although it makes total sense, soon as I saw Big Brother making that call, so difficult for him, I thought back to the jailhouse visitation room confrontation, where he looked like he wanted to puke the whole time. And of course, as Plasmon says, he was always the one to sit in his Fortress of Solitude, waited on by Jimmy and The Firm too'
But once Jimmy pulled him back into law, into life, he had his own struggle, his own balancing act. So he demanded that Hamlin pay Jimmy off, as a condition of bringing the case to The Firm (got enough heft, partnership-wise and psychologically, to make Hamlin think it was still Chuck's deal or no deal---he's not only Chuck's Big Bro). It seems like a very fair offer, though maybe he knew it was a gamble, nevertheless, he it was one that he had to make (that Jimmy would accept it; or could Chuck have turned the case over to H. on his own? Prob not without risking litigation from Jimmy, the principal and orig. attorney of record)
"On some level you know it's true!" And, also as prev. noted, Chuck and their Mom have been dealing with Jimmy all their lives, so we can't be totally confident in condemmning Chuck, can we? Of course, there's also ye olde matter of the self-fulfilling prophecy, and implications about the treatment of habitual offenders, esp. when they're trying to go straight. Still "Slippin' Jimmy I can handle, but Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree?!" Then yet again, comparison to a chimpanzee takes us to the somewhat familiar other side of fine concerns...

Wow, sorry how that looks; no more mad typing on the phone (maybe).

Walter White was unquestionably a horrible person, and the idea he is doing any sort of good or is at heart a "good person" is undermined in nearly every episode. He watches people die and doesn't help them, he orders others to kill people, he manufactures a drug few people would ever advocate for decriminalizing and shows no ignorance about who is buying the product. Unless you buy into the delusions of the character, there is no way you can see him as "good." In the end, he even faced the truth and admitted he did everything for himself.

The main issue addressed by both series is the idea, a very American idea, that personal worth is measured by the respect of important people and monetary success. The so-called American dream is that anyone, regardless of their past, is capable of this success through hard work. There's also the implication that everyone should strive toward something greater. At the beginning of Breaking Bad, Walt seems to be a pretty good teacher, he has a loving son and wife, and a fairly stable life. When he finds out he has cancer, he claims to himself that he wants to provide for his family, but the truth is that he wants success and money. And he gets it, by violent, criminal means.

On the flip side, Jimmy is pretty much the embodiment of a guy who had a shady past and, through hard work, tries to make it the honest way to success. But Chuck knows that's just bullshit, there is no American dream, that your work alone means nothing. Even though both McGills have passed the bar and are legal peers, Jimmy isn't a "real lawyer." Chuck went to the right schools, rubbed elbows with the right people, and it was a lot less about hard work than it was acceptance by the institution.

Walt went a criminal route because he wanted a shortcut, Jimmy is going to go the criminal route because he went the long way through and upon arriving was turned away.

great analysis.

Also, I think by now there's little doubt this show is the equal of BB; at least it is for me. The last episode was heartbreaking.

I haven't seen this latest episode yet (been camping in Big Sur) but looking forward to it. I wonder how Chuck is going to be removed from the picture, since that obviously has to happen at some point.

http://www.amctv.com/shows/better-call-saul/client-development-comic?startpage=20

go land crabs!

or better yet
http://www.amctv.com/shows/better-call-saul/client-development-comic

I wonder how Chuck is going to be removed from the picture, since that obviously has to happen at some point.

I hope he just starves to death because Jimmy won't bring him anymore food. This show must be really well written because I fucking hate Chuck right now.

Even if his law degree is mail-order and he's got a huge mouth, Jimmy is at least as good an advocate for his clients as Chuck and Howard because he always has his radar on and brain working -- loved that scene where he's walking away from Mrs. Intestate, stops, walks back and says "...allowance?" Him leaving and coming back is what makes it.

on one level the most obvious/melodramatic thing would be for Jimmy to have Mike kill Chuck for some reason. not that I think that that will happen but it's occurred to me.

That's kind of the other thing -- lawyers like Chuck go to nice schools and end up working for nice firms with conference rooms and clients with money or cases they can take on contingency. Successful people go to them because they know they'll get their money's worth.

Lawyers that poor people can afford... well, it's like the couple who embezzled the money said, "you seem like someone who represents people who are guilty." Rich people with nice lawyers are never truly guilty the way poor people are, even if the rich people embezzled millions of dollars and some poor guy didn't even commit the crime he was accused of.

For what it's worth, it's not just economics, but race as well. That's part of why OJ Simpson not being convicted of murder was such a landmark thing -- a rich black man was able to get out of being convicted just like a rich white man could have. Conversely, you can work your ass off, be really successful, and still seem like you must be guilty of something. Chris Rock sure does seem to get pulled over by the police a lot more than white people driving the same cars.

I haven't seen this latest episode yet (been camping in Big Sur) but looking forward to it. I wonder how Chuck is going to be removed from the picture, since that obviously has to happen at some point.

You'd think so, but it would be kind of great too if it just receded into the background as a constant source of anger and shame like Grey Matter

Wait isn't Chuck already removed from the picture? I mean what's left to keep Jimmy interacting with him at this point....

http://36.media.tumblr.com/a1aab1d70cf38c50d739c44d2497c297/tumblr_nm60z2OIlr1qh9fgxo1_1280.jpg

Very strong finale. This and The Americans are pretty unabashedly doing 70's-film Americana in long form which I am 100% into.