the five teams who have given up the most points this year are all in the west
― lag∞n, Thursday, April 2, 2015 2:25 PM (7 minutes ago)
wow advanced stat
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 18:32 (nine years ago) link
context kevin, context
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 18:33 (nine years ago) link
only 4 of the bottom 13 teams in point differential are in the west
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 18:37 (nine years ago) link
and only 4 of the top 13 are in the east
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 18:39 (nine years ago) link
the west is better obvs, but thats not what were talking about, were talking about the mvp award, in which case points allowed per game is prob the more relevant stat in this garbage process, ie bron wld have no problem putting up big numbers in the west
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 18:42 (nine years ago) link
yeah except no one cares about points per game anymore
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:02 (nine years ago) link
thats weird because theres a high coloration between the options in this poll and the nba scoring leaders
http://i.imgur.com/R4i6dbU.png
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:04 (nine years ago) link
well yes the best players tend to score the most
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:06 (nine years ago) link
hmmm
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:06 (nine years ago) link
anyway i'd like to see a stat like PER adjusted for league quality, WAR in baseball does this. RPM does this in a sense too i guess
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:08 (nine years ago) link
that chart proves chris paul isn't the best player, good point
― polyphonic, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:08 (nine years ago) link
the one chart that explains why a player whos actually good at every facet of the game is being ignored in favor of a bunch of one dimensional chuckers
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:10 (nine years ago) link
Players who have enough offensive talent that their teams use them as the first option tend to rise to the top of the list of scoring leaders, but mvps tend to be at least above average defensive players, too. Harden was in the same category as melo in mvp conversations until he tightened up his defense this year. He still won't win it.
Where things get sticky is players like AD, who is great at both ends but gets penalized for his team's poor W-L record.
― Giant Purple Wakerobin (Aimless), Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:11 (nine years ago) link
xp boogie, brow, bron and steph are one dimensional chuckers????
(yes, bron isn't phenomenal defensively but one dimensional seems like a stretch)
― pimento is a cheese, some call it the caviar of the south (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:12 (nine years ago) link
i notably am not asking said flabbergasted question re: juiceman and harden
bron has picked it up defensively since his trip to biogenesis
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:13 (nine years ago) link
Harden was in the same category as melo in mvp conversations until he tightened up his defense this year.
― Giant Purple Wakerobin (Aimless), Thursday, April 2, 2015 4:11 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post
hes tightened up his D in the sense of mostly no longer stands perfectly still as if under a witches curse not in the doesnt still get constantly get beat on backdoor cuts sense
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:14 (nine years ago) link
steph is gonna win obvs if anyone was wondering
― pimento is a cheese, some call it the caviar of the south (slothroprhymes), Thursday, April 2, 2015 4:12 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well obvs not brow
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:17 (nine years ago) link
i mean if u want my thoughts on the matter u cn just visit the one true mvp poll ILH MVP 2015
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:18 (nine years ago) link
― lag∞n, Thursday, April 2, 2015 4:14 PM (4 minutes ago)
yeah i don't think it'll be close
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:19 (nine years ago) link
I don't agree any of those guys are the mvp of the ilh board they barely even post
― polyphonic, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:19 (nine years ago) link
― lag∞n, Thursday, April 2, 2015 4:18 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i voted in both to hedge my political bets, like just in case you have a falling out and decide to run against clay rather than with him
― pimento is a cheese, some call it the caviar of the south (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:21 (nine years ago) link
― k3vin k., Thursday, April 2, 2015 4:19 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i wld perfect to see someone who is dominant on both sides of the ball but i wont be mad at steph cause hes doing things no one ever has before, truly becoming a transcendent offensive player, tho i hope he continues to refine his game on that end cause while hes brilliant hes still maybe a lil uneven, if harden or russ won i wld be mad tho
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:22 (nine years ago) link
Curry has a higher DRPM than Chris Paul
― polyphonic, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:23 (nine years ago) link
i do not acknowledge that stat
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:23 (nine years ago) link
imo the sportvu stuff cld be pretty revelatory re quantifying D http://grantland.com/features/department-of-defense
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:25 (nine years ago) link
i like RPM because i think it's the perfect method, statistically, for determining who the best players are. obv in practice it has its flaws but it's a good starting point. i would bet that the difference between curry and paul on the defensive end has as much to do with their difference in height and the quality of their teammates as it does their actual defensive value
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:27 (nine years ago) link
i can understand why ppl like the concept of RPM but its results are just so screwy and inconstant from year to year that i cant take it seriously
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:28 (nine years ago) link
sportVU stuff is cool to see who is good at what specific random stuff. in epidemiology we call these soft outcomes, things that are cool and seem important and related somehow but don't tell you what you really want to know. in basketball you want to know what dudes make their teams score more points than the other teams
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:29 (nine years ago) link
like hey cody zeller is the 23rd best player in the nba this year!
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:29 (nine years ago) link
last year he was 294th why is no one talking about this!
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:31 (nine years ago) link
like it seeks to decontextualize players from their teams but pretty obviously fails miserably at the task
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:32 (nine years ago) link
it's obv imperfect but it's the best we have and imo a good starting point. like i said you can assign rough ratings to players and then from there take things on a case by case basis using the eye test or knowledge of how the stats are made to say this dude is too high or too low
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:34 (nine years ago) link
its the best we have from the pov of what wld be the god stat its not the best we have as far as being actually good or useful
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:35 (nine years ago) link
if youre gonna apply yr eye test and adjust then info like the sportsvu stuff is actually much more useful cause it can call into question the assumptions underlying yr eye test
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:37 (nine years ago) link
what if sportsVU says Chris Paul sucks
― polyphonic, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:38 (nine years ago) link
not possible
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:39 (nine years ago) link
like the eye test made up of things like "kawhi is the best at double teaming the post then effectively closing out on three point shooters" you can actually to some extent examine if that is true
tho clearly even then its strongly influenced by his team
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:40 (nine years ago) link
xxxp idk it's hard to argue with most of the top doors
xxp i think it's easier/better to get the overall number then use the little stats to make sense of it rather than start with the pieces and try putting them together in own own arbitrary and possibly biased ways
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:44 (nine years ago) link
i agree conceptually im just not sure basketball is actually amiable to that approach, which is what imo makes it so interesting, like the cold precise ways baseball can be broken down is so boring and tedious to me
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:48 (nine years ago) link
Curry was a good defender last year that people grudgingly admitted was mediocre, and now he's a great defender that people grudgingly admit is good
― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:59 (nine years ago) link
if he was a great defender kinda doubt GS wld go to all the trouble of having klay guard opposing point guards so much
― lag∞n, Thursday, 2 April 2015 21:00 (nine years ago) link
^^^
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 April 2015 21:04 (nine years ago) link
i think steph is the best player in the league this year
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 2 April 2015 21:05 (nine years ago) link
steph still looks like a bad pick and roll defender to me but maybe the stats don't back that up
― lag∞n, Thursday, April 2, 2015 2:00 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this doesnt happen as much any more. you guys watch his D on CP this week?
― #wegonnabechampionship (Spottie), Thursday, 2 April 2015 21:23 (nine years ago) link
curry 3rd in steals fwiw
― brimstead, Thursday, 2 April 2015 22:45 (nine years ago) link
oh wait he's first actually
― brimstead, Thursday, 2 April 2015 22:47 (nine years ago) link
most of the picks are pretty reasonable imo altho i disagree re: 6 man because #homer
― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 17:28 (nine years ago) link
grantland obv cribbed their mvp ballot from my list upthread
― Giant Purple Wakerobin (Aimless), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 19:01 (nine years ago) link
low's top 5 is my exact top 5
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 14 April 2015 21:22 (nine years ago) link