Better Call Saul

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I felt this episode was perhaps dramatically a bit too neat (Marco just happens to die while their performing their last scam, Jimmy just happens to get an offer for a proper lawyer job just as he's contemplating what to do with his life, and of course his final speech to Mike was a bit too much of AND THUS SAUL WAS BORN!), but on the other hand the previous episode was the one that provided the real dramatic turning point of the whole season, and they managed to get there quite organically (Chuck's "you're not a lawyer" speech felt like an unexpected shocker, but it was totally in line of how his and Jimmy's characters had been established in the previous episodes, so it was really about as masterful as plot twist can be), so I could forgive them for wanting to tie up things neatly in the finale. I'm not sure what's left for the next season, though? Are we just gonna see the same kind of stuff as in BB, except from Saul's/Jimmy's point of view?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 17:15 (nine years ago) link

He is nowhere near the position we see him in in bb

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Tuesday, 7 April 2015 17:22 (nine years ago) link

There is a fair amount of space between deciding to be less scrupulous and being a money-laundering criminal defence attorney with ties to the meth business

He might just be thinking of taking advantage of his geezer clients at this stage

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Tuesday, 7 April 2015 17:26 (nine years ago) link

this show is so good

lag∞n, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 17:36 (nine years ago) link

I liked how Mike was seemingly caught in between thinking Jimmy had lost it and thinking he was right.

Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 05:12 (nine years ago) link

Still wondering how much mileage they try to get out of pre-BBad Jimmy and how much time they'll spend with post-BBad Saul-Jimmy. And the best part is that I have absolutely no idea.

fuck me, archipelago (Simon H.), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 05:59 (nine years ago) link

I've said it before but I really don't need to see any more post-bb Saul

In any case I don't think the whole show would jump to the gene part of the timeline cause that would mean getting rid of Jonathan banks

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 06:05 (nine years ago) link

I agree with Tuomas that the finale felt too neat and contrived, narratively - but that doesn't bother me so much when the execution is this good and the details this rich. The scamming montage was incredible, like a live action version of Bart and Milhouse's squishee rampage.

I've said it before but I really don't need to see any more post-bb Saul

If they make it interesting sure, why not?

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:08 (nine years ago) link

I thought it was a neat detail that the one thing that forced Jimmy to change his habits wasn't getting caught while scamming (which the previous episode lead the viewer to believe was the case), but getting caught while shitting inside his nemesis' car. There was some implication, though, that he'd had legal trouble before, but it still seems that his crooked life never gave him such pain and disappointments as his straight life, so it's not that surprising he'd return to it.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:21 (nine years ago) link

in the earlier episode when he's in jail it's explicitly stated that he's in for indecent exposure, not scamming

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:23 (nine years ago) link

he uses the term "chicago sunroof" in that earlier ep too

his bingo meltdown was so good

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:25 (nine years ago) link

Yeah, beautifully written and performed scene.

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:28 (nine years ago) link

the big revelation for me there (apart from finding out what a chicago sunroof is, lol) was the suggestion that chuck deliberately got jimmy facing a harsher sentence so he could manipulate him into coming to new mexico with him

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:31 (nine years ago) link

Was that really suggested? If Chuck was Jimmy's defense attorney, how could he make the prosecutor go for a harsher indictment?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:34 (nine years ago) link

re the gene years, it just feels redundant to me. I like the fact that we know how saul's story ends: he works a boring job, lives in fear of being recognised, that's it. I'm not interested in seeing him on the run any more than I want to see jesse driving around in an rv solving crimes

xp unless I'm misremembering, jimmy says in the bingo speech that chuck pulled strings

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:36 (nine years ago) link

yeah just went back & checked, he says "chuck was connected, like cicero connected[...] he's got the DA saying 'indecent exposure'"

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:41 (nine years ago) link

No, I think he said the guy in whose car he shat in pulled the strings?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:41 (nine years ago) link

Okay, maybe I misremember that scene.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 11:42 (nine years ago) link

It wasn't Chuck's car he shat in was it? It was confusing as he ranted on about how the car-owner was his worst rival and gave him a fake name that sounded similar to Chuck.

Also, fat guy having a heart attack at *that* moment was a bit hmm, as they've never really gone for the obvious soapy plot thing before. One of the most impressive parts of the last episode was Jimmy explaining how he rang the phone company to get details of calls made - would have been v easy (& lazy) to just have Jimmy check his 'dialled calls' settings and see lawyer guy's number pop up. Nice example of Chuck's slyness that he went through and deleted that manually after his phone call, despite not being shown onscreen.

NI, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 13:01 (nine years ago) link

It wasn't Chuck's car he shat in was it? It was confusing as he ranted on about how the car-owner was his worst rival and gave him a fake name that sounded similar to Chuck.

No, it was just some guy he hated called Chet, who'd apparently also slept with Jimmy's wife. Also, I checked that scene with the Netflix subtitles on, and this is the line Jimmy says:

Now Chet was connected,see? Like Cicero, connected.

Odenkirk says the name "Chet" a bit unclearly, so I can see why Wins misheard it as "Chuck". But it wasn't Chuck who got him the indecent exposure charge, it was Chet, which makes more sense to me than Chuck doing it.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 13:43 (nine years ago) link

Ahhh, I totally misread that scene as Chuck pulling the strings to teach Jimmy a lesson or what have you.

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 13:45 (nine years ago) link

But yeah, since that scene has Jimmy rambling about both Chuck and Chet, maybe they could've given the car-shat guy a name that sounds a bit more different from his brother's.

(xpost)

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 13:45 (nine years ago) link

This is why I always watch movies and series with loads of realistic dialogue with the subtitles on, even though my English is pretty good.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 13:49 (nine years ago) link

Chuck was a good brother and bailed him out, and Jimmy having some sense of obligation took the ultimatum to get his shit together seriously, to the point where he didn't even say hi to his friend when he was in town for a funeral a few years back.

It turns out Chuck had limits on how much he wanted his little brother to turn his life around, though.

mh, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 14:32 (nine years ago) link

xp my bad!

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Wednesday, 8 April 2015 14:36 (nine years ago) link

Terrific first season, but I didn't believe that payoff/turnaround in the last minute. If the point of the season was to build us up to an inevitable moment where Jimmy finally turns, it hasn't worked for me. Ultimately who cares, though, if the next season stays at this level.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 April 2015 00:46 (nine years ago) link

The heart attack at that precise moment was a little too convenient, yeah (Gillgan's team can fudge the way from points A to Z sometimes, like how did Walt get anthrax or whatever into Lydia's untorn sugar substiute packets), but that goes with the scurry of their characters, after all. And they do get there, often enough.

I suspect that Mike, who is an old school expert at much deeper and darker shit than Jimmy's ever thought of ("That precinct was a sewer," says the older of the detectives from Back East, easing up to fellow vet M.), has something to do with his continuing education (although Jonathan Banks has just been quoted by Hollywood Reporter re Season 2, "I have absolutely no idea what will happen.")

dow, Thursday, 9 April 2015 01:09 (nine years ago) link

Or maybe they lead each other down the road to BB.

dow, Thursday, 9 April 2015 01:11 (nine years ago) link

Jonathan Banks has just been quoted by Hollywood Reporter re Season 2, "I have absolutely no idea what will happen."

"He went on to stare soullessly at this reporter, take a long drink from his can of coke, say 'alright then' and walk away, pointedly, without saying goodbye."

Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 9 April 2015 03:53 (nine years ago) link

Terrific first season, but I didn't believe that payoff/turnaround in the last minute. If the point of the season was to build us up to an inevitable moment where Jimmy finally turns, it hasn't worked for me. Ultimately who cares, though, if the next season stays at this level.

― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, April 9, 2015 12:46 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I didn't buy it. Felt unearned.

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 9 April 2015 05:14 (nine years ago) link

Re Mike and deep dark etc: maybe I'm just remembering the future of these characters, maybe he really does, so far, think in the terms of his little Sunday School lesson about how you can be a criminal without being a bad guy, maybe that's how he could have been a good cop who just took the bribes to fit in and stay alive. Then again, he's good at compartmentalizing: in the future, he can do dark shit before and after buying balloons for his granddaughter at the park. Still, even he may have a ways to go, BB-wise.

dow, Thursday, 9 April 2015 05:42 (nine years ago) link

Agree with the A-Z fudging -- Walt's character was all over the map in season 2. Not so much a gradual descent as "oh, right, he's evil now."

I think the problem is, Odenkirk's so (surprisingly) good, so three-dimensional, that if the script has is motivation pivot in a sudden and cheap way, it's all the more noticeable. Whereas Walt was a mystery, even to himself, and his unexplained mood shifts worked well as part of his enigmatic character (rather than as signposts of rushed storytelling).

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 April 2015 09:30 (nine years ago) link

"has his motivation", I mean

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 9 April 2015 09:30 (nine years ago) link

tbh I would imagine Mike as a cop would do whatever it took if he knew someone was guilty, including planting evidence, setting them up to take the fall for something else, etc

mh, Thursday, 9 April 2015 14:14 (nine years ago) link

My hope for next season is that Ermintrout gets more screen time.

calstars, Thursday, 9 April 2015 16:59 (nine years ago) link

I'm calling the Chicken Man showing up next season.

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Thursday, 9 April 2015 17:03 (nine years ago) link

last episode could have used more Mike and I was actually surprised how quickly Jimmy turned at the last minute and didn't really buy that. Otherwise though everything about this show is great.

akm, Thursday, 9 April 2015 17:53 (nine years ago) link

yeah that was an odd moment. hmm i am about to receive the legitimacy, respect, and career path that I have worked so hard for since turning my life around but wait I HAVE A GIFT MESSAGE RECEIVED THX GOD

resulting post (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 07:17 (nine years ago) link

My hope for next season is that Ermintrout gets more screen time.

Myyk Ermintrout

― oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Wednesday, March 4, 2015 2:47 PM (1 month ago)

oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 14:25 (nine years ago) link

There's been a lot of grumbling about Saul's turnaround at the end of the episode but I'd wager that his turnaround isn't going to be quite so quick when it's actually put to the test. He's made the decision to Break Bad but he's still a relatively moral character who's surely going to suffer some pangs of conscience on the way down.

Blah! I'm A Drackla! (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 14:36 (nine years ago) link

It just means being a bit bent ie taking the Kettelman's cash etc, and we know Jimmy spent most of his youth like that. It doesn't mean going straight to representing meth kingpins.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:18 (nine years ago) link

I think people are putting too much stock into that last scene. I saw it as a sort of 'fourth-wall' moment, similar to the announcement at the end of the first series of Game of Thrones where the narrator said something like 'Do you want to see battles between dire wolves, dragons, zombies and giants? Then tune in next year for season 2', even though that season has very little of those mentioned.

but then again, who really cares? I don’t. (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:24 (nine years ago) link

Whoa, what version of Game of Thrones are you watching with narration?

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:26 (nine years ago) link

it was only right at the end of the first ever series.

but then again, who really cares? I don’t. (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:36 (nine years ago) link

hahaha that never happened but i am loving the idea that it did

Premise ridiculous. Who have two potato? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:50 (nine years ago) link

i'm sure i didn't imagine it. Maybe it was just a teaser tacked on the end of the version I saw.

but then again, who really cares? I don’t. (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:51 (nine years ago) link

that's got to be the case and i'm not popping shots at you DL it's just cracking me up
jon snow looks balefully into the distance beyond the wall, eddying winds swirl around his fur cloak, he dramatically turns and says "DEAR VIEWER: Do YOU want to see battles between dire wolves, dragons, zombies and giants?"

Premise ridiculous. Who have two potato? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:52 (nine years ago) link

Nah, Daenerys turned to the camera and said it after emerging from the fire.

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:53 (nine years ago) link

yeah lol it was totally off-tone and hollywood trailery IIRC.

but then again, who really cares? I don’t. (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 15:55 (nine years ago) link

I think people are putting too much stock into that last scene. I saw it as a sort of 'fourth-wall' moment, similar to the announcement at the end of the first series of Game of Thrones where the narrator said something like 'Do you want to see battles between dire wolves, dragons, zombies and giants? Then tune in next year for season 2', even though that season has very little of those mentioned.

That is how everyone else sees it too, ie corny and bad

Dainger! High Doltage (wins), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 16:00 (nine years ago) link


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