Pavement:Classic or Dud

I hear a lot of "90s" running through current indie rock, but only a little bit of Pavement here and there.
yeah i think malkmus is a pretty unique/unusual musician/lyricist when you get right down to it... parts of the pavement sound were easy to replicate perhaps, but he's hard to pin down. kind of like what big star worshipers miss about alex chilton, i think.

I hear a lot of Chilton in Pavement

yeah i do too, w/o it being particularly explicit

First time I heard Pavement I bought "Slanted and Enchanted" and "Mellow Gold" on the same trip to Media Play. Kind of sad that the slapdash atmosphere and lo-fi DIY spirit of those records hasn't really been revisited amidst all the 90s nostalgia. One thing I loved about both acts was they really didn't take themselves seriously at all. Beck's career has veered in the complete opposite direction but Pavement seemed to have kept its sense of fun up until the end.

yeah, seemed like terror twilight was a bit of a half-hearted attempt to make a "mature" record, but they blew it (typically). [i do like TT though]

yeah even with all the moroseness in TT they still made Carrot Rope the single

xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij9Tm5vewY4

xpost

yeah I guess the Pavement traces in a lot of contemporary indie bands could be attributed more to a general 90s-ness I'm hearing, because none of these bands have someone as distinctive as Malkmus on guitar or writing songs, which is why I'm not really feeling this current trend.

I liked Pavement in the 90s, but I didn't typically elevate them above all others (I saved that honor for Archers of Loaf), so hearing a little bit here and there in current indie pretty much mimics my experience with them back then.

What about the voice of Geddy Lee? How did it get so high? I wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy.

I know him, and he does.

Then you're my fact-checkin' cuz.

[cue 90s lounge-Bossanova drum machine]

I was about to make the Chilton/Big Star comparison to Pavement. it's super cliche. but yeah the mystery, the sense of humor and the sense of commercial "failure" is part of what drove them from well-respected to canonical

the lyrics are also just something that have a huge impact on you at an impressionable age. they can be interpreted and studied over forever. they impacted my personality for sure

The slacker type is kinda coming back no? Mac DeMarco would represent that archetype.

Pavement evolved from a shroud of mythical obscurity which I think would be very hard to replicate in these times. They claimed they were from California to throw off the info seekers which led to the ascent of the band was fueled by the pseudonyms, the unlikely prog-burnout drummer, the revolving line-up changes, the obtuse liners. They were a moving target only achievable through the backpages of fanzines and midwestern mailorder catalogs.

Could a band today be as mysterious, obscure and obtuse?

yes but no one would care

As a mid/late millennial (26), Pavement was a huge part of my high school and early college music listening. They always felt before my time (my favorites of theirs were released when I was 3-7) but never "old"; the contemporary bands who were important to me drew from them more in ethos/vibe than they did in specific sound or style. They seemed less like something to revive or respect -- like the Velvet Underground or Television -- than they did a trailblazer for bands I was into. Although I didn't have a brother who got me into them like global tetrahedron mentioned upthread, that anecdote is fitting. They were a musical cool older brother; aloof and versed in things I could never quite get (The Fall, hardcore punk, etc.), and more interesting and daring than the music that was important to me at the time. (I remember the first time I listened to Conduit for Sale! and finding its atonal rambling skronk to be the most badass thing, just so much more idgaf and progressive than the milquetoast indie that otherwise populated my mix CDs.)

I've grown musically and personally since then; their arch remove and slacker talent-wasting don't speak to me as an adult comfortable with being genuine and wishing to do the best I can with what I have. (It doesn't help that I shared them most closely with a friend who succumbed to the depression I see lurking at the fringes of Pavement's ironic distance and nihilist disengagement.) But there was something unique to them as they fit in that moment of indie rock's last gasp, and the appeal they had to those of us who bought tickets to see Art Brut, Wolf Parade, No Age, etc. the day they went on sale and somehow got a ride to the city to jump around a few hours in a sweaty church basement. It makes sense, ten years on, that they're now being "revived" by Mac DeMarco, Parquet Courts, etc. -- and that those acts don't speak to me the way they seem to do to slightly younger crowds, who might view Pavement the way I used to see the Velvet Underground.

There's definitely some slacker lineage that starts with Big Star/Chilton, continues with the Mats and is passed onto Pavement in the 90's

otm cpl593h

I'd say all had a universal sense of emotion in their writing. it all had a bit of nihilism, a bit of romantic disarray, some snotty rebellion.

they all transcended their eras by writing incredible songs and continue to serve as a soundtrack for the loners of the world

xp - that was my bloodline through high school and college -- i'm the older brother only i don't have any younger siblings and i'm not a man.
i liked pavement back in the day -- they didn't write stupid love songs and were kinda funny and i liked how noisy they were. i barely remember caring about terror twilight but they were there for me when i needed them.

debris slide!

lol

Slacker lineage starts w Dylan.

that was my bloodline through high school and college -- i'm the older brother only i don't have any younger siblings and i'm not a man.
i liked pavement back in the day -- they didn't write stupid love songs and were kinda funny and i liked how noisy they were. i barely remember caring about terror twilight but they were there for me when i needed them.

I remember looking forward to buying TT on the day of release. In the 2000s though technical and vocal prowess started interesting me, so of course my affections was worn down. But I don't want Booker T and the MGs from them either..

the stuff Chilton is doing on his guitar here is proto-Pavement to the fullest. plus the ironic Jerry Lee Lewis jacket. the guy was ahead of his time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCyqODUveRI

!!! didn't even know that existed

Pavement evolved from a shroud of mythical obscurity which I think would be very hard to replicate in these times...

This is OTM. For that first couple years, even for a bit after Slanted and Enchanted, they were really obscure and hard to find any information on at all. I can't see how that can be replicated now that the Information Superhighway is here.

the same obscurity helped New Order.

Unknown Mortal Orchestra successfully pulled it off for a minute.

I love Chilton but the most obvious Big Star DNA on a Pavement record is the intro to "Silence Kit" which is an homage/lift of a Bell penned/played riff.

believe me it's super-easy to be obscure - the trick is to be obscure and still have people interested in you

obscurity isn't really interesting to people anymore

Shabazz Palaces first couple EPs did a pretty good job of stirring up interest under a veil of obscurity. Although I guess not really at the level of, like an S+E review on SPIN Magazine or w/e.

this is also how I would describe Grimes pre-Oblivion

I'm sure in SP's case various media outlets cooperated/assisted because of Butler's previous projects.

idk about Grimes

I love Chilton but the most obvious Big Star DNA on a Pavement record is the intro to "Silence Kit" which is an homage/lift of a Bell penned/played riff.

That's gotta be "Feel", right? The way Crooked rain kicks off has always reminded me of #1 Record.

people always talk about pavement as being so insincere and arch and ironic and stuff but i dunno a lot of their music conjured and conjures a real deep feeling of melancholy with me

they seemed to exist in the fading hours of a late summer day, the feeling suddenly in the air that fall was nearly here

yeah as a teenager i definitely related to them more than, say, pearl jam, who people would've probably pointed to (at the time anyway) as a band with "heart."
feel like pavement also communicated some of the simple pleasures of being in a band w/ your friends. what does it mean, a mistake or two?

people always talk about pavement as being so insincere and arch and ironic and stuff but i dunno a lot of their music conjured and conjures a real deep feeling of melancholy with me

they seemed to exist in the fading hours of a late summer day, the feeling suddenly in the air that fall was nearly here

― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, April 14, 2015 3:32 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree but at the same time Pavement's front man could certainly read as distant and aloof, esp in a live setting, (lord knows that's what he seemed like when I saw them) and I think a lot of people keyed off of that.

I don't think they were insincere I just think they expressed genuine emotions in a prickly manner and that fucks with people.

esp in a live setting,

ain't that the truth. when they were on, they were ON, but there are only a couple people I can think of who I've seen display a greater contempt/disregard for their audience (and funnily enough one of those was Billy Corgan)

The Pavement show I saw was the start of a tour and it was clear they didn't know the songs and Malkmus was being very Malkmus-y and I just walked out and ignored their music for a long time.

Billy Corgan at least provoked some ice throwing ("Hey the next person who throws ice and we'll leave!" cue the entire room throwing everything that wasn't nailed down at them)

Like 90% of dudes in bands are aloof afaik

they seemed to exist in the fading hours of a late summer day

my feeling too

There's not one other group where I esteem one album SO highly (Slanted & Enchanted) and am SO indifferent to nearly all the rest of their output. For example, I tried to like Brighten the Corners and just found it dead. Didn't even give Wowie Zowie much of a chance, and I know that record is considered quirky and fun. I like but did not go crazy for the early ep stuff - forklift is pretty good

I don't know, maybe when it's all old it will all sound great, that kind of thing happened with the album Fear of Music, which changed my life for a time and then for years bored me whenever I tried it, but now it sounds great again (first side anyway).

I started by seeing Pavement in ABQ in 1994, having not heard one single song, going only on the hype in the village voice, and as a 30 year old I was one of the older people there (but only by five years or so). I enjoyed the show (ftr they were nice to the crowd at Golden West Saloon), and picked up Crooked Rain....played that album a lot that year (not as much as Mellow Gold however, which is still great). And then wow did that Crooked Rain lose its flavor! I think I'd still like 'range roving with the cinema stars' & heaven is a truck. The rest has sounded mannered to me since at least 1996, when I finally spent the bucks on the by-then-legendary Slanted Enchanted. Only song I liked the first listen was "Here."

S & E never never fails, that's a rock record man, & the sound on that record makes a mockery of the concept of "lo-fi" - it's FI all right, and what it is is FI-ing HIGH. "Jackals, False Grails", "Perfume-V", "Trigger Cut" probs my faves these days, but I don't even skip the filler. Sometimes I skip "Here".

A sentence such as "Zurich is stained and it's not my fault" is precisely the kind of sentence that sums up being stoned: grandiose and vulnerable.

I do love and consider absolutely first rate the song "Cream of Gold" though --- is there anything else that epic? Maybe I should listen to that whole album?

Dude you shoul definitely give Wowee Zowee another chance. That's their best besides Slanted and Enchanted. And the Watery, Domestic EP that came in between S+E and Crooked Rain is perfect.

If you want a Pavement epic, try Grounded on Wowee Zowee.

"I liked Pavement in the 90s, but I didn't typically elevate them above all others (I saved that honor for Archers of Loaf)..."

I'd agree except I would go with The Grifters as my favorite. I listened to plenty of Pavement, Sebadoh, Superchunk, Silkworm, Palace, Red Red Meat etc. back in those days.

super interesting revive

this band parallels some of my life experiences I guess, I grew up in the same town where Maklmus DJd in college, but I went to college elsewhere (he's just over 3 months older than me). post-college a mutual friend of ours told me to get Slay Tracks so I did, kept up with them through Slanted and then lost interest a bit until hearing Wowee Zowee (which imo is their best LP proper). Then I lost track again. But the run from Demolition Plot through the post-Slanted singles was one of the defining musical things of the early 90's to me. Crooked Rain seemed like a retread at the time, now I like it just fine. Still haven't heard the later ones although I have heard bits of Malkmus and Spiral over the years. The music feels like an old friend, yeah summer of '91 was a good time.

it's nice that they've stayed relevant. I think their unpredictable stylistic shifts and generally solid lyrics make up for the at times transparent influence-copping. when I used to throw Slanted on after its release, my GF would say "everything sounds like The Fall or The Velvet Underground" which might not be totally fair but was not an unheard criticism at the time iirc.

my personal indie pantheon of the early 90's would be these guys, Unrest, Sebadoh, and the Xpressway stuff.

I've never quite understood the comparison between Slanted and the Fall. And people make it so emphatically, like it's (or parts of it are) the most obvious Fall rip imaginable. Weird, since I like both bands.

they only really got good on CRCR in my book. before that it was just a mess.

xpost. It doesn't sound much like The Fall, but the cover art is Fall inspired, one song *is* a straight up Fall rip off (Conduit for Sale), and another takes the drums from Hip Priest (Our Singer). Two States is pretty Fall like. That's probably enough to justify the comparison. I also liked Archers of Loaf/Grifters/Unrest better than Pavement, but Pavement had a more wide-ranging set of influences so I think it's easier for people to find something to like.

I first heard about Pavement senior of high school in 1999, and I must admit Terror Twilight was the first thing I heard from them, and I loved it. I actually listened to it the other day and still enjoyed it, although I can't tell if it's just nostalgia. It's not my favorite Pavement record (probably Crooked Rain), but I feel Malmus' guitar is pretty on point throughout. Maybe it's better imagining it as a Malkmus solo record? that's all I got.

It's funny hearing about these 90s indie bands that feel through the cracks for me during that time, like Grifters, Unrest, Palace etc. I remember reading Spin frequently in the late 90s and getting a sense that the only indie bands that "mattered" according to them were Pavement, Sebadoh, and GBV.

The Pavement show I saw was the start of a tour and it was clear they didn't know the songs and Malkmus was being very Malkmus-y and I just walked out and ignored their music for a long time.

Billy Corgan at least provoked some ice throwing ("Hey the next person who throws ice and we'll leave!" cue the entire room throwing everything that wasn't nailed down at them)

― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, April 14, 2015 8:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha where were the shows?