MAD MEN on AMC - Seasons 7(a) & & 7(b)

sally owned this episode - that joke to betty and her perfect zinger to don about her two parents. the stuff about appearance and looks and power is p rare to see dealt with effectively on tv, despite being such a fundamental part of life.

i also really liked the question of why that was emerging here - like the whole show is fairly existential but this big black hole at the centre of why the company, why peggy was trying to do what she wants to do, what the point of any of what they'd done was, except to move onto the next thing.

the actress playing sally's friend was v funny too - perfect as a kid imitating an adult.

also loved the costume for joan's old flame - the pointy collars and the bandana and stuff, he reminded me a bit of that alcoholic cowboy bart meets in the simpsons.

the last shot was p sweet too.

If this guy is indeed the last stop for Joan, he seems a little wanting to me. Joan is so interesting; he seems so ordinary by comparison (not to mention how selfish he initially was). (I know I know the well-known actor--meant to check that.)

As for Don, I agree with tipsy and others--he wasn't trying to insult Peggy, he was just picking her brain, trying to nudge her towards what he was after.

Bruce Greenwood, Canadian; I know him from Capote and The Sweet Hereafter.

I recognized him from I'm Not There

he really rocked that leisure suit

Also as JFK (persuasive) in Thirteen Days.

Thought he looked a little Sinatra in this role -- going for that carefree Rat Pack vibe.

oh you mean the dude from the new Star Trek films

Nowhere Man also (if anyone watched that). he wasn't her 'old flame' though. they'd just met.

by the way Joan lost several cool points by being willing to drop her son for the aptly named Greenwood.

Figured she was being sarcastic

I charitably thought maybe her saying she didn't have any mouths to feed was in reference to her not having to work for a living

there was a great moment when she turns to the babysitter (holding the kid) and yells "you're ruining my life," which immediately seems to be directed at the child instead.

i took her willingness to leave her son as sarcasm, but it was played really straight--perhaps similarly to the moment before, it could be take either way, which makes it poignant.

I really think she is at the point where she has decided the traditional domestic thing is something she either isn't cut out for or is doomed to never have and was willing to send her kid away just so she could grasp at something that seemed good.

basically everyone in this show is horrible except Bob.

my jaw dropped at the delivery of "You guys sure have some balls coming back here!"

like I know Don Draper is handsome, dude, but you are a charisma-free zone

the expression on Pete's face in that scene was so incredible

at first I thought he was just really dumb and Don told him to say _he_ had some balls for returning and he'd reversed it

Surprised anyone was reading Joan's confrontation of the polyester cowboy as serious. She was clearly being sarcastic.

Well, that would be me. She sure projected sincerity, and the scenes we'd seen between her and the babysitter or her and her son (note the switch to the hollow game show optimism when she has to talk to him on the phone in her first scene).

She was clearly pissed at her situation (babysitter, mother on vacation, charming man's rejection rooted in her having a son), but at the time he arrived at the office she had no reason to believe she'd ever see him again and wanted to drive the point home that if he wants to move forward he's agreeing to take her as-is. If I hadn't been watching the show for 7 years, I might have not picked that up, but Joan Holloway has quite a sarcastic streak.

She sure does. But I didn't see it in that scene, although that's a plausible reading.

I completely read it as sarcasm meant to make him realize how ridiculous he was being. From there, I was surprised how readily she was willing to overlook this.

Yeah, that was 100% sarcasm to my eye/ear, and hilarious. She was basically talking to him like she'd talk to a junior staff member.

I find Ted Chaough increasingly hard to figure out. At the end of 7-a, he was morbid and ready to crash his plane; last night, he seemed content and kind of dopey. I'm not really sure what he even does anymore.

Very good episode. If the remaining ones are as good as this I'll be happy. Very well directed by whoever did that. Very interesting multiple readings of almost every line by the actors, quite impressive.

Production/ costume design excellent too. Although we're in the 70s now Joan is definitely still in the 50s and looks gorgeous obviously but trapped in her heyday Betty too (glen: " and you took exactly the same") and don too who's dressed almost exactly as he was since the show opened except crucially for the boozy face and unkempt hair alluded to making him look like a gone-to-seed man in the 1950s rather than 70s. Sterling (!) work there.

Glen amazingly looks less like the old glen than he would have if they had actually replaced him with a similar actor!

Ted looks like a guy who's finally worked out how to give up striving for the unattainable and just enjoy life and Don just didn't understand it at all.

Thought that the "you don't do anything, you're just handsome" burn from the dorky creative guy must have really stung coming so soon after the broadside from Sally. Although "you guys sure have some balls coming back here" was the sort of thing only Roger could pull off.

Good to see that creepy Glen grew up to be Jean-Ralphio Saperstein.

was totes getting a Prince 1987-tour-era vibe from Glen, all the stonewash with Peace symbols.

shit yeah Bruce Greenwood is Pike in the new Star Trek films! i knew i recognised him. 19 year age gap between him and Joan irl.

I completely read it as sarcasm meant to make him realize how ridiculous he was being. From there, I was surprised how readily she was willing to overlook this.

well he did arrive at her office, with flowers, basically saying he'd been a total dick and was buying a place in nyc to be with her.

and i think his "we both knew what this was" shows we're now in the age of the compromise and the last chance - brilliant that they picked that line which could so easily be used to dismiss a one night stand.

Did Peggy read Don's demeanor wrongly? I had the sense he was trying to push her towards giving deeper answers, but I guess it's entirely possibly he was just being a smug dickhead.

I thought it was just Peggy giving career-climbing answers when Don is becoming increasingly disengaged and disillusioned with advertising and work etc ("is that all there is?")

The poignant note as Don leaves his apartment at the end didn't make a lot of sense. "I've had good times here" or whatever. WHEN?

"I've had good times here" or whatever. WHEN?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXoILGnHnvM

I wondered for a minute if there was a plot beat they dropped where it's revealed Peggy's paramour bought Don's place

exasperated pete: "THERE you are!"
don: "there YOU are."

sanford meisner exercise

"I've had good times here" or whatever. WHEN?

Zou Bisou Bisou

haha yeah it's not been a happy place aside from that moment. although Don had a go at Megan after that!

Yeah but even Megan's dance - in front of his work colleagues - wasn't something Don was exactly comfortable with in the end though, was it? iirc?

xp

I feel like he enjoyed it but didn't appreciate the fact that he didn't see it coming and wasn't in control.

I would've thought his irritation at "Tomorrow Never Knows" cancelled out all positive associations with that apartment.

Very good episode. If the remaining ones are as good as this I'll be happy. Very well directed by whoever did that. Very interesting multiple readings of almost every line by the actors, quite impressive.

It was directed by Jennifer Getzinger who also directed "The Suitcase" (Peggy & Don bottle episode)

Surprised anyone was reading Joan's confrontation of the polyester cowboy as serious. She was clearly being sarcastic.

otm -- it was part of her general disgust with the way men perceive and treat her. Even a guy she liked. As some kind of trophy who couldn't want anything more than to be dolled up and treated right by a powerful man, regardless of her own needs, obligations and ambitions.

couldn't want anything more than to be dolled up and treated right by a powerful man,

tbh it isn't clear to me what else she wants besides this, (and maybe it isn't clear to her either)

Feel like it wasn't entirely sarcasm either, esp in the context of that earlier scene where she says "You are ruining my life!" and it cuts to the babysitter holding her kid. The kid is a man but he is the new generation rather than Don's, and those old power structures are falling. Most of the scenes in this ep where gender dynamics were getting upending happened w inter-generational conflicts: Joan and her kid/the babysitter, Betty/Glenn, Don/Sally, etc. In a way Joan is being totally honest here, she is not going to let another man dictate her life, even if that man is her son. I don't think she would be so flippant, she has thought about this a lot.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/02d1b0618ef3f10b307bfe9a4e95190a/tumblr_nn47anXY0j1rm0qhbo1_500.gif

https://36.media.tumblr.com/193f993c4fd3dc47b29340f48c91bcaa/tumblr_nn47anXY0j1rm0qhbo2_500.png

lol

tbh it isn't clear to me what else she wants besides this, (and maybe it isn't clear to her either)

I read her character very differently. I think she has always wanted to be respected for her intelligence and abilities. She has a career that she's proud of, even if it has involved some things she hates. She wants rich-developer guy to see her as a smart and talented ad exec, not arm candy.

Ding! Ding! That was exactly my take on it as well.

Funny that this whole debate hinges on how well or not well Christina Hendricks was able to deliver those lines.

I think she has always wanted to be respected for her intelligence and abilities

as Peggy noted, the way she presents herself (and has historically been willing to exploit her physicality) says otherwise. This is the central conflict in her character imo - she wants the former, but can't resist the latter.