MAD MEN on AMC - Seasons 7(a) & & 7(b)

i'm glad weiner put the db cooper bullshit to sleep, i feel like some people think every tv show is breaking bad.

the headhunter peggy spoke to a couple episodes ago said that she'd probably quadruple her asking salary after working at mccann for a few years. i hope we'll see more about peggy at work in the final episode but it seems like a place she could thrive. she won't get the director position at mccann that she wanted at SCDP but she's got a very successful career ahead, i think.

you may have missed the part where the guy who runs the place told joan that peggy wouldn't likely be in her job very long

i don't recall that, no

do we think there will be a time jump

McCann is pretty clearly not a place where people thrive, much less women

I don't think there will be a time jump

my bet would be on peggy starting her own agency in some way (she didn't have equity and thus no non-compete clause applies)

It's possible, but it won't be a "where are they now?" kind of thing like many other series do.

the jump forward is to 2050 and they're all dead

entire show is hyper-intelligent cockroaches puzzling over an unearthed BurgerChef billboard

entire show is a story Ginsburg scrawled out in blood on his window in the mental institution.

aliens return to earth to reclaim their prodigal son, Ginsberg, proceed to lay waste to Manhattan

i dunno, in a prior episode, when peggy & joan met at mccann about topaz pantyhose, peggy was remarkably deft at redirecting the blatant sexism of the men in the room and remaining professional. i don't think mccann will necessarily care that she's a woman as long as she remains childless & married to her job. we already saw that there are other female copywriters, even if they are used on 'women's' accounts. plus mccann might be a soulless corporate wasteland but it's also a stable environment, which is a lot more than you could say for SCDP.

we already saw that there are other female copywriters, even if they are used on 'women's' accounts

Peggy's already been the copyrwiter for "ladies" products, she had bigger ambitions than that, ones that have been explicitly stated

she HAS

i don't recall that, no
― gwyneth anger (patron sailor)

pete saved the burger chef account so i'd assume she's still on that? idk i think peggy's gonna stay put, she already decided against going elsewhere when SCDP was absorbed so something really awful would have to happen for her to leave imho

yes I remember that forks

entire show the entire internet on monday morning following the show is hyper-intelligent cockroaches puzzling over an unearthed BurgerChef billboard
― Οὖτις, Friday, May 15, 2015

i don't mean to pooh pooh your interp p.sailor; i'm sure a woman with peggy's presented skillset would have a successful career even in the rabidly sexist 70's.
i just have very little emotional attachment to these characters i guess

nah, it's fair, we're all reading tea leaves here. i like peggy, tho. she's an asshole but she's got talent.

I remember. xxxp.

I'd forgotten about it right up until it was brought up in this thread though. I'm hoping Peggy gets a happy-ish ending anyway.

I doubt she's going to leave McCann, they already did that with Joan and I don't think that the Mad Men writers are going to repeat themselves.

ad agencies are not a place where people thrive, much less women. they are pits of evil.

btw Weiner explicitly disagrees with this, one reason i could never love this show.

MW basically sees agencies as... the CABLE TELEVISION of the '60s!

there was cable television in the 60s?

For a long time, it was my assumption that Peggy would be the character to come out on top at the end, considering the first episode of the show was her first day on the job—the title Mad Men being ironic, etc etc blah blah. At this point, I think the closest we'll get to that is the scene with her silhouetted in Don's office chair that mimics the show's generic avatar. That's clearly too neat a narrative for Matt Weiner, though I know he treats Peggy like one of his favorites.

just imagine the rich tapestry of sincere mad men fanfic that will inevitably extend these characters' stories beyond the conclusion of the series. it's gonna be wild.

I refuse to acknowledge any non-slash-fiction

Canon-only for me!

final shot is joan stubbing a cigarette out on a photo of don and sneering "i've had it with all these mad men" through a cloud of cigarette smoke

I did not know this:

In 1950, Robert Tarlton developed the first commercial cable television system in the United States. Tarlton organized a group of fellow television set retailers in Lansford, Pennsylvania, a town in the same region as Mahanoy City, to offer television signals from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania broadcast stations to homes in Lansford for a fee. The system was featured in stories in The New York Times, Newsweek and The Wall Street Journal. The publicity of this successful early system set off a wave of cable system construction throughout the United States, and Tarlton himself became a highly sought-after consultant.

Tarlton used equipment manufactured by a new company, Jerrold Electronics. After seeing the success of the Tarlton system in 1950, Jerrold President Milton Shapp reorganized his company to build equipment for the now-growing cable industry. In 1952, Tarlton went to work for Jerrold, helping to construct most of the major systems built by that company in the 1950s. Tarlton was also responsible for training many of the major operators of cable systems in the 1950s. In 2003, Tarlton was inducted in the Cable Television Hall of Fame for his work building the first widely publicized cable television company in America.

The show has actually been weaving in and out of four alternate realities, each one signified by a different Bobby Draper.

I think we should just go along with what the headhunter said and assume Peggy will do a few years there and move on and up.

that sounds exciting

like this is the last episode of a series that has focused really heavily on her, I don't think they're just going to leave things as they were established in the last couple episodes, that'd be pretty anticlimactic

I doubt she's going to leave McCann, they already did that with Joan and I don't think that the Mad Men writers are going to repeat themselves.

― silverfish, Friday, 15 May 2015 21:33

Pete and Don too. The place just seems so hostile to anyone with hopes or ambitions that I could see all the main characters leaving.

It won't happen but it would be great to see Lou's Tatsunoko cartoon crash and burn after a few episodes. Mort Walker ripoffs in Japan hardly seems like a recipe for success so I guess maybe it was intentionally showing that Lou wouldn't be a success?

I think the animation was just being done in Japan, not that it would be broadcast there

Shit, of course! That makes far more sense. But didn't having American cartoons animated by Japanese studios only become a thing in the 80s?

Speaking of Lou, can I just mention how much I loved his final "Heh heh heh" to nobody after saying sayonara to Don?

I know this stuff doesn't have to stick to reality but I don't think Tatsunoko ever animated anything specifically for American audiences like Toei did loads of.

Don't tell Lou! (I know Weiner said "No Spinoffs," but sure would like to see one about Lou vs. Japan)

ad agencies are not a place where people thrive, much less women. they are pits of evil.

btw Weiner explicitly disagrees with this, one reason i could never love this show.

― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, May 15, 2015 3:34 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

MW basically sees agencies as... the CABLE TELEVISION of the '60s!

― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, May 15, 2015 3:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i like this reading, actually, would read an extended version of this theory. and yes ad agencies are horrible.

Tom and Lorenzo knocking it out of the park - great Mad Style post this week: http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/05/mad-style-the-milk-and-honey-route/

And this is interesting I guess even though it feels like they're kinda reaching on some of these theories: http://themuse.jezebel.com/why-we-should-have-seen-betty-drapers-mad-men-fate-from-1704689270

One of my favourite Roger lines, after drunken Duck gets up and makes a fool of himself at the awards show: "God, I miss working with that guy." He says it like he really means it, and misses the walking disaster aspect of Duck.

i think john slattery's line readings are probably the best thing about this show.

Roger really has the best personality
xp

it could just be Slattery's readings!

http://themuse.jezebel.com/why-we-should-have-seen-betty-drapers-mad-men-fate-from-1704689270

this kind of shit makes me hate everything, mad men included.

this kind of shit makes me hate everything, mad men included.

Serves you right for going to Jezebel.

Roger to Jane, just before they drop acid: "Don't say I never take you anywhere."

The Jezebel thing was posted a little earlier last night. I don't think it claims to be scholarship or anything, but I found the connections interesting.

All those halfassed clues yet the writer didn't cite Grandpa Gene explicitly warning Betty about her cigarettes while they're discussing his funeral arrangements

Knowing full well I’ll be ridiculed for this, here’s how I think the show handled the big issues of the day. By handled, I mean was the issue confronted more than I mean do I agree with whatever reading someone might take away.

Emerging feminism: unqualified success. Again, I can understand disagreements about the meaning of Peggy’s, Betty’s, Joan’s, or Sally’s stories--two people could look at Peggy and come to completely opposite conclusions about what her story means (with more to go, presumably), and I’m sure there’d be valid explanations on both sides. But that part of the show was front and center the whole way. And not just for those four characters: Faye Miller, Rachel, and many other female characters were part of it too.

The counter-culture (or youth, or “I Just Wasn’t Made for These Times,” or however you want to label it): not as central, but handled pretty well. This is Don and Roger’s part of the story, mostly: WWII vet, Korean vet, a certain kind of worldview and way of behaving that’s on its way out, played off against the surrounding din. No one yet has become fully radicalized, as I expected (ditto above), but lots of characters were somewhere on the continuum: Sally, Kinsey, Ginsberg, Stan, etc.

Race: mostly side-stepped. I think there’s an argument to be made that that’s a good thing, that forcing it in every week would have become tiresome, and that it was peripheral to this particular set of characters, but in view of how central that story was to the ‘60s, the show did largely move it to the edges (musically, too).

The war: mostly side-stepped. Good example of how something can feel perfunctory: as fascinating as I find Glen, sending him off to Vietnam felt a little predictable. So there was him and Joan’s husband, Ken Cosgrove/Chevy/Dow (the Chevy allegory was great, if you buy that reading--I do), grumbling here and there. Pending tomorrow night, not one war-related death yet, I don’t think.

The emerging gay-rights movement was also only partially addressed--I don’t think that became a big story until right near the end of the decade, anyway--but based on a handful of characters, that was probably the closest the show came to a fifth big issue. (Unless it’s something about fundamental changes in the corporate world--I’ll have to leave it to someone else to explain that.) Like many people, I wish Sal hadn’t been dropped; like very few people, I didn’t find Bob the least bit interesting.