Madonna: Classic Or Dud

A living legend.

And the video of Hollywood is just stunning. As are the remixes.

remixes sound good tho

Also, she should start releasing the great tracks from American Life, and there are definitely quite a few. I'd go for Nothing Fails and Mother and Father.... both classic Madonna.

Why in the heck did they put "Borderline" as the third song on Immaculate Collection? I don't get that. Those other songs ("Lucky Star", "holiday") weren't released as singles earlier, were they? I don't think so. I swear "Borderline" was the first video I ever saw. That's kind of annoying sequencing. I think "Borderline" is just so fantastic - the type of song that should really kick off a greatest hits collection.

Anyway, let's talk some more about Madge. We haven't had much opportunity to do so; the last album flopped, god bless her, but what can you do? It happens. She is still awesome in my mind.

I finally saw Swept Away on HBO or something over X-mas but whatever, it wasn't too bad. I loved the original, and Madonna's didin't seem to bad. Decent flick.

Anyway ... Madonna!!!

Madonna would benefit from a Lennon-like 5 year voluntary break from the public eye/music world...

Because:
1) the album is chronological
2) it could not start more perfectly
3) the song's classic-ness is "borderline" at best

I can't believe it! This is the song from Live Aid you can't get on the commercially available DVD! And I found it by accident when I played Human League's Human video. God what luck. I love You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lABvKuDZFKE

Hmm. So I'm the only one who cares? I realize it's not the best song in the world, perhaps, but it's been the missing chapter in her Live Aid performance for me, it's the missing link, the mystery solved, I feel so relieved.

It's ok -- this appeared on True Blue, no?

I don't know - did it? I've been wondering what album it came off if any. I guess I could look it up and I will do so, but too tired right now.

Indeed it did. Last track, in fact.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/True-Blue-Madonna/dp/B000002L9S/ref=sr_1_1/202-6023791-6219064?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1190557045&sr=1-1

Anyway, much better than the "Revolution" train wreck.

Christ almighty Alfred you are OTM in that regard! I mean that shit was just tragic.

Anyway, isn't it about time she releases a compilation containing the original 7" versions of her singles? Particularly "True Blue" sounded very different as a single than as an album track (and video), and it isn't avaiable anywhere except in its 12" version as a bonus track on the "True Blue" remaster.

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

She should rather have rested from 1990 to 1997, as she didn't produce much of value during that period anyway. From 1998 onwards, she has been great.

Dud. Fucking horrible woman.

I don't know what's most over-rated - her music or her "looks".

I'd rather hear Guy Ritchie sing. And wear a cone-shaped bra, come to think of it.....

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

-- Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:49 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Link

83 - 89 = CLASSIC
92 - 94 = ok
98 = quite good but not classic
99 - present = DUD

i think her voice is actually underrated. listening to angel recently and although she has difficulty reaching the low notes, i like how she used to sing in a lower register than how she sings today. she seemed to have more vocal character then. though it might also be cos she seemed to have more of a soul/R&B influence back then too.

Her lower register = classic. Responsible for: "Angel," "Live To Tell," "Who's That Girl," "Oh Father," etc.

she should have gone away after ray of light, though even there, i think dance music brings bad qualities (and lyrics) out in her. but then her decision to write so much of her own material since then in association with a producer seems to bring out worse qualities. the only two ROL songs i really like are candy perfume girl and the title track.

I love "Skin", probably my favorite track on the album.

Actually a decent amount of that album has her in her lower register, which I agree is better than her middle/upper register.

titchy with the most boring received wisdom on her eras there

Almost twenty years later, I'll admit: Bedtime Stories >>>>>>>> Ray of Light

lex with the most contrarian, but still wrong wisdom. let me guess, you think the 99-present era is her best?

the lower register thing doesnt really hold perfectly true ill admit - eg - material girl and like a virgin arent in her lower register but are still totally classic.

take a bow is better than most of ray of light.

take a bow is better than most of ray of light.

I'd agree with that, but that doesn't mean Ray of Light is bad.

The singles off of Bedtime Stories are uniformly excellent, some of her best material ever.

Lots of solid album tracks too: the glacially melancholy "Love Tried to Welcome Me," the first "Forbidden Love," "Sanctuary."

fwiw, i think beautiful stranger is pretty good in terms of the ROL era

i think just looking at madonna post-ROL has also ruined her music for me, perhaps i need to warm to the skinny leotarded madonna more

I don't know that I've ever heard the entire Bedtime Stories album, actually! If I have, it didn't make an impression.

I think Madonna has firmly slipped into radio single territory for me after the all-out ball of weird that is American Life. Nothing she's done since has been as strong an artistic statement to me, so I haven't felt the need to own or listen to it with any regularity; AL has a confluence of ideas that should read to me on paper as a total trainwreck but instead comes across to me as a really compelling listen.

lex with the most contrarian, but still wrong wisdom. let me guess, you think the 99-present era is her best?

Anyone who doesn't rate Erotica among her 2 or 3 best albums is now actually in the vanguard, I'd guess.

ill have to relisten to AL. yeah its cohesive but i found that even that sort of unity didnt add up to enough.

I don't expect my appreciation of that album to translate to too many others; it's pretty clearly an experiment with some massive missteps but that just makes it more fun to me.

I think dance music brings bad qualities (and lyrics) out in her.

Not sure what this means, I thought Madonna always did dance music?

Also are you all ignoring Confessions On A Dancefloor on purpose or did you forget about how great it is?

I've never heard the whole thing.

Her best album from each respective decade has been her danciest (Madonna, Erotica, and COADF)

xpost - i dont think of her early soul/R&B/funk era as being 'dance music', even though yes, you can dance to it, and most people do, but thats just me.

Her best album from each respective decade has been her danciest (Madonna, Erotica, and COADF)

OTM

i don't know if i completely agree with prolego and yet those are my three favorite madonna records?

xpost- It says in the liners notes of The Immaculate Collection that her first album pretty much invented the Dance Music genre, and I have to agree with that. It's not quite soul/R&B/funk, or disco, or new wave, but it's kind of all of that at the same time.

titchy with the most boring received wisdom on her eras there

Oh come on lex, you're not going to burst into the thread with cries of "boring received wisdom" and not actually offer up your own opinion now, are you?

"xpost- It says in the liners notes of The Immaculate Collection that her first album pretty much invented the Dance Music genre, and I have to agree with that. It's not quite soul/R&B/funk, or disco, or new wave, but it's kind of all of that at the same time."

lol at that album or madonna inventing the dance music genre.

The boring received wisdom is that the nineties were a drop off but then Ray of Light was a partial return to form.

This is wrong: I'd say from Erotica though to American Life there is a consistent fall from brilliance --> excellence --> goodness --> quite goodness --> good/badness

I wouldn't say that Madonna is best at her most dance-focused, necessarily; perhaps rather that being a (modern version of a) disco diva is a good look for her, and she's better when framing her albums nominally around that idea and then branching out with other (downtempo or ballad etc) material that comes almost as a surprise. But you know, there's actually a lot of slower moments on Erotica!

A common misnomer is to think of Ray of Light as her "dance album" when really there's only 4 proper dance numbers on there at most (the title track, "Skin", "Sky Fights Heaven", "Nothing Really Matters"), the rest largely being ostentatious (though often good) high-tech balladry. I'd say Ray of Light in this sense is like the inverse of Erotica, a balladic album with dancefloor diversions.

See, that's my problem with her in album-length form: fuck the ballads, full-on disco from start to finish please. Is that so hard?

Erotica hides its ballads really well imo.

What makes Ray of Light a drag is the tension between the insistence on introspection and the buttoned-down beats; or, rather, she hadn't yet found a correlative for "thoughtful" dance music. The results are a little like Young Americans: auteurist pop with dance leanings.

Also: when her lyrics aim for "spirituality," she's embarrassing or worse. I'd forgive this if her post-Evita voice wasn't at its most pompous. The only time I hear some new kind of New Age-disco fusion is on "Sky Fits Heaven."

See, that's my problem with her in album-length form: fuck the ballads, full-on disco from start to finish please. Is that so hard?

sorry, pally: MY Madonna requires "Live to Tell," "Crazy For You," "Bedtime Stories," "Love Tried to Welcome Me," and "In This Life."

I'd forgive this if her post-Evita voice wasn't at its most pompous.

This is the nub of it I think.

Erotica hides its ballads really well imo.

Yeah, I listen to it all the time obv and I still get surprised. I think it helps that all of the ballads (as well as the other slow tunes - "Where Life Begins", "Secret Garden" etc.) really feel like an extension of the same character as inhabits the uptempo tunes. "Bad Girl" and "In This Life" are precisely the depressive songs that the all-nite-diva would sing to herself the next day, under a cloud of hangover and regret.

Yeah that's cool but why can't she relegate the hangover to another disc? Why's it so hard? (I'm being bitchy, really. The Erotica ballads/downtempos, apart from the obvious one, are decent enough. But I'd be lying if I said I ever listen to them or that I'd need to save them in a fire as with "Deeper and Deeper.")

sorry, pally: MY Madonna requires "Live to Tell," "Crazy For You," "Bedtime Stories," "Love Tried to Welcome Me," and "In This Life."

They're all yours, baby, including the overrated "Live to Tell." Come on - Dave Marsh thinks it's her best single. How good could it be then??? "Gambler" >>> "Live to Tell" Didn't know "Bedtime Story" counted as a ballad but I do dig that one. Had to youtube "Love Tried to Welcome Me" since I couldn't recall it. Made it to the chorus. Zzzz.

I knew I really couldn't stand her balladry when I listened to Something to Remember. Obviously not an ideal place to hear them since they're the entire picture rather than desert oases. But man what a chore to get through!

The only time I hear some new kind of New Age-disco fusion is on "Sky Fits Heaven."

Actually, that Shanti Shanti Shanti number on Ray of Light fuses the two nicely enough. One of my fave tracks on a pretty blah album.