Nine dead in shooting by white gunman at historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina

i do know better than to expect any meaningful legislative change from any mass shooting

yeah I don't expect it either, but I feel compelled to reiterate the extremist stance when it comes to the 2nd Amendment because a) nobody says it and b) the NRA has an all-or-nothing agenda (that they are remarkably successful at) and the best way to counter that is for the opposition to adopt an all-or-nothing position as well. The NRA's going to say "liberals want to take away your guns" no matter how weak any proposed regulation is, so we might as well own it imo - after all, repealing the 2nd Amendment would be the optimal outcome, and we shouldn't be ashamed to argue for it.

take away all guns
throw them in a lead lined box and sink it to the bottom of the ocean
put them in a rocket and fire it at the sun

p much

Someone on my FB wall pointed out that the flag patches on Roof's jacket are of South Africa and what was formerly known as Rhodesia.

ok yea that makes sense to me xp outic

Basically fuck anyone solipsistic enough to value their right to own guns over everyone else's right to walk down the street/to school/into a fucking place of worship without fear for their lives.

#BREAKING: Law enforcement source tells News19 Charleston church shooting suspect arrested in Shelby, NC

Yeah, that's upthread, Alfred.

(Yes, two more failures/losers, so much for white supremacy.

like all the "gun control" organizations that I'm familiar with all go out of their way to argue for limited goals - restrictions on sales, on where guns are legal to be carried etc. - but I think this is the wrong approach. Set higher goals, push the debate to be between two genuine poles rather than concede that there is some reason for an inalienable right to gun ownership. Don't concede shit! Specifically call out the NRA as the enemy and argue against their reason for being. Yes this is divisive - but *this is how the NRA won*. Conservatives are great at co-opting liberal tactics, here's a case where we should copy theirs.

xxp

Someone on my FB wall pointed out that the flag patches on Roof's jacket are of South Africa and what was formerly known as Rhodesia.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, June 18, 2015 11:22 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

you could read the thread, alfred

As has been pointed out to me already.

Potus addresses incident @ 11:45 https://www.whitehouse.gov/live

jamelle bouie: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/emanuel_ame_church_has_long_history_of_resistance_to_racism_the_charleston.html

Charles Pierce:

What happened in a Charleston church on Wednesday night is a lot of things, but one thing it's not is "unspeakable." We should speak of it often. We should speak of it loudly. We should speak of it as terrorism, which is what it was. We should speak of it as racial violence, which is what it was.

We should speak of it as an attack on history, which it was. This was the church founded by Denmark Vesey, who planned a slave revolt in 1822. Vesey was convicted in a secret trial in which many of the witnesses testified after being tortured. After they hung him, a mob burned down the church he built. His sons rebuilt it. On Wednesday night, someone turned it into a slaughter pen.

We should speak of it as an assault on the idea of a political commonwealth, which is what it was. And we should speak of it as one more example of all of these, another link in a bloody chain of events that reaches all the way back to African wharves and Southern docks. It is not an isolated incident, not if you consider history as something alive that can live and breathe and bleed. We should speak of all these things. What happened in that church was a lot of things, but unspeakable is not one of them.

Not to think about these things is to betray the dead. Not to speak of these things is to dishonor them. Let Nikki Haley, the governor of South Carolina, look out her window at the flag of treason that is flown proudly at her state capitol and think about these things, and speak of them, before she pronounces herself so puzzled at how something like this could happen in South Carolina, the home office of American sedition.

this whole thing is so disgusting

but yeah with shakey on repealing the 2nd amendment

obviously we'll never fully be able to control internal white terrorism like this but not having the country flooded w/guns would be a start to mitigating its impact

I really hope they bring this asshole in a live and don't give him the pleasure of offing himself.

Never seemed the type for that tbh.

Yup ban guns. Repeal the 2nd amendment. We've never tried it. Let's try it.

I have gone from generally anti-gun to moderate "live and let live" re guns in my lifetime (raised by hunters/gun nuts) but in the past ten years or so I've become pretty radically anti guns. Nobody needs them. You don't need them. They are dangerous. Just stop.

Take a look at this inbred moron btw

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1187A/production/_83720817_ec72579e-1b75-424c-961b-b0adf3d52a62.jpg

p much.

the idea that a "well armed populace" could actually resist the US military also a total fantasy/fallacy at this point

xxp

Potus addresses incident @ 11:45 https://www.whitehouse.gov/live

― rip van wanko, Thursday, June 18, 2015 11:34 AM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Man, every time someone posts a link to the president addressing something, I find myself sitting here half an hour later with one earbud in and nothing playing in it.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has a page of civil rights martyrs: http://www.splcenter.org/civil-rights-memorial/civil-rights-martyrs.

It lists 41 people killed from 1955 to 1968. So the death toll last night is equal to almost a quarter of all people killed during the civil rights movement.

POTUS feed finally showing some activity.

Oh, we've finally gotten to the pre-president paper shuffling and throat clearing portion of the broadcast.

Obama must be tired of doing this by now

joe biden looking like grumpy cat

Remarkable tidbit: The suspect apparently sat in the pews at the Emanuel AME bible study for an hour before opening fire.

holy shit – Biden's falling apart

POTUS has been reading the thread, at least.

Wow. Obama sounds impressive, tired, and sad.

Is this streaming?

Yes. Just ended.

reassuring to hear impatient, loveless reference to the american people hesitant to start thinking about gun violence

A little facile, perhaps, but the White House twitter is interesting as regards the points it takes from the speech: https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse

his gun violence statement was pretty pointed. "this doesn't happen in other developed countries." xxp yes

usually when american people hesitant to start thinking about gun violence start thinking about gun violence their first thought is "man, I need more guns"

Right? "If the pastor was armed, this wouldn't have happened."

xp to myself IE nothing about the racism angles - he said he was constrained by due process, could this be a matter where how the shooter did what he did (IE shoot) is less bound than why?

Which of course overlooks what we do to black men who carry guns, or things that look like guns, like wallets or cell phones or nothing.

sorry, more bound.

his gun violence statement was pretty pointed. "this doesn't happen in other developed countries." xxp yes

― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Thursday, June 18, 2015 12:31 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

advanced countries.

Right? "If the pastor was armed, this wouldn't have happened."

I've already seen that comment a couple times.

Jesus packed a 12-gauge

I think they're going to replay the POTUS address on this stream soon.

There's a link on the twitter now.

advanced countries.

― how's life, Thursday, June 18, 2015 10:34 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oops, ty

Yup, we've hit point in any horrific media event when the on-air assholes can now safely target the president instead of trying to just kill time.

Puns not intended, probably.

Right? "If the pastor was armed, this wouldn't have happened."

I'm not going to post a youtube of a satirical comedy show on this thread but google "gungregation" to see what Chris Morris was up to in 1997.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hsgif90ivw

I've been thinking about this a lot since it was published: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/07/opinion/dylann-roof-shouldnt-get-the-death-penalty.html Not intended as a comment on anybody's else's position - just something that's stuck with me.