This is the thread where I try and summarise Cerebus

Whoa crazy http://www.momentofcerebus.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/weekly-update-93-fan-bequeaths-500000.html

1. make a complex and flawed monolithic masterpiece
2. wait a decade for insane fanbase to metastasize
3. profit or maybe don't

that is insane

tbh every time this thread is bumped I expect it to be because Dave has died

If there is going to be a museum rather than the off-white house it should be a Ghibli Museum-style reproduction of the hotel/house Cerebus occupied while Pope. With a statue of him on the roof speechifying

tbh every time this thread is bumped I expect it to be because Dave has died

― Οὖτις, Friday, July 31, 2015 5:52 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

same

Thirded

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/760564344232882176

surprised he didn't make the Hillary:Cirin connection (and given the state of things recently I would be inclined to throw in Putin:Lord Julius as well)

Well, Hilary is Cirin if you're Dave Sim. Not sure otherwise.

Did Sim ever reference the Clintons in Cerebus?

In the comic, I don't think so, in text pieces, yes.

Well, Hilary is Cirin if you're Dave Sim. Not sure otherwise.

well, yeah. this is all in the context of the comic. I'm confident Sim would equate Hillary with a vindictive, ideology-bound grandma in charge of a nanny/police state

I just finally got around to reading "Reads" (thx to a certain unnamed online resource), which I had avoided for years, and man this really was the point of schism wasn't it. Although I think not so much the raging misogynistic content (though that is definitely unappealing) as for the injection of Dave Sim Omnipotent Author into the narrative. As parodic and self-referential as the series may have been up to that point, it was still functioning within an established, consistent storytelling framework - and the whole abrupt breaking of the fourth wall that extends into "Minds" and reappears periodically not only seems totally unnecessary it actually derails a huge part of what was interesting and appealing about the book. Just.... why. Such a terrible aesthetic decision. And reading these issues with all of the "Letter from the President" and other marginalia included really does make the comic content feel like just a small part of a picture of a guy losing his mind than a coherent piece of artwork. Such a bummer.

feel more like a small part

that should say

also afaik Dave Sim is not dead yet

Incidentally, I think introducing himself as a character was the biggest mistake of the series, and probably heralds the start of the "I'll just make this shit up as I go along, plot resolutions are for voids" era of Cerebus -- altho' as Aldo sez, Guys is still quite fun.

lol aldo otm 10 years ago

er Chuck Tatum I mean

Am tempted to buy the first couple digital phonebooks, the early art looks so beautiful here: http://cerebusonline.tumblr.com/archive

I picked up a phonebook at my folks' house a few weeks ago and forgot how annoying Roach and the two moustache brothers are (I tended to skip over their panels). Though Astoria is still an incredible character, even if the idea of Dave writing an interesting female character now seems mindblowing.

"SMASHIE BASHIE BAF BAM" from when the brothers are getting pummeled by sacred wars roach is still funny to me, idk why

All the Kitchen Staff Supervisor stuff is still classic (Sewage, sewage, sewage)

I'll probably recommend HS and both C&S volumes for a while to come

And I always liked the stupid accents, especially "smartaguy aardawark"

Such a terrible aesthetic decision.

Inclined to agree in hindsight, though at the time I really really enjoyed Minds - maybe because his smaller-scale aesthetic decision making was about as good as it had ever been at that point. A really technically accomplished, beautifully rendered book, whatever the shortcomings of the storyline/themes.

the artwork/lettering/everything is certainly incredible

"SMASHIE BASHIE BAF BAM" from when the brothers are getting pummeled by sacred wars roach is still funny to me, idk why

FONFLIF

builds character

Did his smaller-scale aesthetic decision making ever dip? Even during the unbearable Koningsberg stuff it was well drawn and lettered (you could argue that walls of text meant less space for his amazing Big Letters...)

Eh I think in later books his layouts can be too busy and he can sometimes overdo it a bit with the wacky lettering.

When else am I going to get this much uninterrupted time for a re-read?

Just finished the first phonebook and I think I enjoyed it more than I ever have. The characters are solid, the dialogue pretty taut, the stories have momentum and the art improves markedly until it's pretty much as good as it gets pre-Ger. A really unexpected surprise and now don't know how going to react to what's coming.

in a fortnight you’re going to be posting about how the concept of the feminine void is a good one, actually

I'm definitely going to do the text in Reads and g_d help me to try and read the Torah commentary for the first time ever (it was just too small in the floppies, and DO I LOOK CRAZY?).

I may do a running commentary on that bit because I don't think any of us ever read it?

best of luck to you and may g_d have mercy on yr soul

i reread this when i got the torrents maybe five years ago; i was shocked by how generally badly written and well crafted it was.
good luck

High Society definitely feels like a warm-up and Dave still hasn't found his feet yet either in his art or storytelling. Lord Julius is still a bit too much of a parody and the return of Elrond and the Roach seem like an attempt to use familiarity to get readers onside.

But.

The McGrews are Dave's first great self-created side characters. And Astoria - although better is yet to come from her - is thoroughly developed from the outset as the manipulative, scheming equal (superior?) of any other character in the series. It's the Elf that is the master manipulator though and Cerebus starts on his lifelong quest of trying to get things he doesn't want in the forlorn hope it will make him happy.

I again enjoyed this more than I expected and it's hard not to see parallels for the current political climate here, with a buffoon propped up by a Machiavellian idiot who isn't as clever as he thinks he is, elected only because the alternative is even less palatable to the public.

C&S Volume 1

Gerhard joins and it's the missing piece. Everything suddenly gets 10x better through Dave concentrating on the important stuff. Cerebus gets to be the shape and form we know later. The actual main plot is a bit of a duffer if I'm honest, and the Countess is probably the least vital of all the Cerebus Women (which is probably why she doesn't really - at all? - come up again).

Plot be damned though, there are brilliant moments throughout this.

On page 59 there is a panel which is just an eye but between that and a speech bubble you're exactly with it.
Mind Game IV is as good a study of a depressed alcoholic as there is.
Odd Transformations near the end is a 40 page dream sequence with 4 pages of taking a piss in the middle, but we also get Young Cerebus looking exactly like his later portrayals. And this is the first time I've noticed the first time we see Young Cerebus he's up to his ankles in water, like in the stream with the knife.

Then amid all this we get the unheralded introduction of Bear, arguably the love of Cerebus' life.

I keep waiting to be let down by this re-read but it looks like the time I spent since the last read was long enough.

nothing that's happened in the last 3 decades has diminished my desire to do a reread of High Society through Rick's Story. I just keep putting it off.

I had been putting this off for at least 5. I just realised exactly what I had at the moment was time.

The actual main plot is a bit of a duffer if I'm honest

Yeah Sim's not very good at actual main plot on reflection, definitely more of a moments guy.

C&S V2 is ok I guess but very wordy and fond of infodumps to advance the plot (which it does at a frightening pace in order to de-escalate for the calm of the next few books). The Astoria sequences are immense though.

Re-reading the Judge/George material, having got to the end, it seems clear that large chunks of it are #289/290 through the lens of Chasing YHWH.

i am curious to find out how WOMEN holds up

The Cerebus blog has published the official "The Bizarre Autopsy of The Strange Death of Alex Raymond: What went wrong, AND HOW!" explanation of Sim's latest abandoning of a long-term publishing project.

In keeping with Dave's, and his blog guy's, keen understanding of how to disseminate both information and comics in 2020, this consists of fifteen separate embedded youtubes of audio of the blog guy talking to Sim on speakerphone (Dave's handset is broken so he will only use speakerphone), with himself sitting by the microphone and Dave's echoing voice in the distance.

C&S V2 is ok I guess

I remember the eventual confrontation with false pope being pretty darn exciting. Also a hilarious bit where Cerebus accidentally takes the Rolling Stones' drugs?

In keeping with Dave's, and his blog guy's, keen understanding of how to disseminate both information and comics in 2020

Love how bad at this Sim, and anybody who will still work with him, are at The Present Day.

I remember the eventual confrontation with false pope being pretty darn exciting. Also a hilarious bit where Cerebus accidentally takes the Rolling Stones' drugs?

The false pope confrontation is one of the excessively wordy bits I thought. It mainly involves Fred, Ethel and The Fellow With The Hair telling Cerebus how inevitable their victory is and why he should just jump off.

The Stones bit is the worst part of the book, in retrospect. Haha Keith Richards is always stoned. Haha Cerebus says I LOVE YOU to Mick Jagger. I can see why the Dave of the time thought it was him being a genius, but I just thought it was a one-joke part of the story.

I'm thinking of cool bit where he blows up the stone pope with a canon? I could check, the book's right there on my shelf.

Willing to concede Cerebus on drugs might not be as funny as when I was 17 or whatever.

Oh that bit. Yeah, that's pretty great - mainly because of the Weisshaupt reprise.

Sorry, I thought you meant the Final Acension, none of which I enjoyed much (sorry Carrot fans).

Really curious to reread these. I still have the phonebooks up to Flight (my cutoff point) at my parents’ house.

What an putting me off is the amount of Roach/Drew/Fleagle material, always found them totally exhausting after the first book

I read C&S2 when I was 14 and always assumed I would “get it” when I was an adult, lol

The intro of Gerhard is pretty immense though

*What’s putting me off

I've really enjoyed Drew and Fleagle this time round, Roach is (as you suggest) a comics in-joke that Dave plays a bit too hard on whatever but of Marvel mythology is in his head at the time.

Sim definitely way too fond of extended in-jokes.

at least he's still great at them

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3v5WKVeH4Rw/XvSRmaZuA0I/AAAAAAAADOA/abdP2q3HEwEo837zSPJEMZxkPG9LwRocQCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/80%2BThursday%2BJuly%2B16%252C%2B2020.jpg

jeeeeeeeezus

And that's not to mention the forthcoming 'woke comic store clerk' 48 page one-shot by the one that's actually doing the art on SDoAR.

All the CiH? covers have been pretty spicy this year, there were the three C-19 themed ones, the one about cousins fucking each other...

^^ said one-shot written by Sim has been successfully kickstartered by the guy that drew for free for him for years, now that Sim dumped him; $15 for a 48-page comic, or for $200 you also get one of 100 available already-printed promo copies of the first volume of Strange Death Of Alex Raymond, which will probably be the only printing of the book ever.