Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

I'd like to see the trend for the death rate for African-Americans, particularly if it takes into account deaths at the hands of authority figures, before agreeing that we live in safer times.

Serious question, crudely phrased: What if it turns out that "black person killed by cops" is this year's "child bitten by pit bull"?

I don't think the statistics will be radically different this year. There's just a much brighter light being shone on the problem at the moment.

I don't think the statistics will be radically different this year. There's just a much brighter light being shone on the problem at the moment.

That's kinda my feeling, too. And I wonder what's going to happen once the media turns the light off again.

So glad I don't work in HR:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/us/virginia-shooting-spotlights-riddle-of-workplace-safety.html

It's not really just the media who arbitrarily chose to focus on police brutality this year. This has been a brave and determined effort by mainly black people of Ferguson, Baltimore, Cleveland, etc, to say enough is enough and take to the street and demonstrate. They've been hit with water cannons, tear gas and truckloads of bullshit arrests. And then smart and brave #BlackLivesMatter activists har worked determinedly to spread the word whenever something new has happened.

Even worse than that (xpost nytimes piece): employers often settle out of court with irate employees, and confidentiality is one of the conditions, so an unstable employee can keep moving along, getting hired and fired and hired again. In some states, arrests can't be considered in hiring (ditto the police report re this ex-TV reporter's removal from station premises); mentally disabled are a protected class; some other details I find harder to believe---all according to attorneys this morning on CNN's "The Legal View With Ashleigh B." (not linking because having trouble w CNN site at moment).

VA. gun laws weakened since VTech:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/after-va-tech-a-long-struggle-over-gun-laws/2014/02/11/21e899d0-8e86-11e3-b227-12a45d109e03_story.html

Thought of that while reading about the slain TV reporter's father vowing to reform gun laws (the father of a Virginia Tech survivor is an activist now, and this is the environment he has to navigate)

Broad and deep support for increased gun control: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/08/29/how-americans-actually-feel-about-stronger-gun-laws/

oh, crap, here we go with the "laws to prevent mentally ill from buying guns" again. the black lives matter movement and the events of the last couple of years have convinced me that we need to take serious and drastic action on the firearm situation in the us, but preventing the mentally ill from buying guns is the exact wrong thing to do. mental illness is already stigmatized enough in the us, and a law of this nature would be far more likely to have the effect of dissuading people who need help from seeking it than it would be to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. you want to see how something like this works in action, look at the us military, where you get discharged if you require treatment for mental illness. oh, sure, amphetamines are all well and good, but god forbid we should have one of our brave men and women in uniform on prozac. it's an utterly absurd policy, particularly when you take into account that war is insane and will make you insane. i'm as mad about all this as anybody, but that's no excuse for passing stupid laws.

Speaking as someone who is mentally ill... DON'T GIVE ME A FUCKING GUN, YOU IDIOTS.

(NB I am also of the persuasion "don't give anybody a fucking gun, you idiots")

What she said

Does feel like it is brushing the problem under the carpet though. Preventing the mentally ill from buying guns might stop them shooting people, but of all the mass shootings that have happened this year (one a day by some counts), and the non mass shootings, and the accidental shootings, how many would that have prevented? Maybe 'some' is better than none and maybe symptomatic treatment is the only thing possible at the moment. But it's not addressing the root causes.

The country was founded on using guns to systematically wipe out thousands of native communities, something that has long been enshrined in national myth as Manifest Destiny, the root causes are pretty deep.

Even if the mental health issue is being used by NRA types to derail the conversation, it's pretty clear that US gun/military/state violence culture is and always has been akin to someone with serious issues. I mean "War on terror"? What would you think if someone you interact with on a daily basis told you they were at constantly war with fear?

the "prevent the mentally ill from buying guns" dodge is fucking shameless because mental health funding in this country & at the state level in most places is the first goddamn thing under the knife every time a budget comes up, which means that the people being prevented from buying guns will only be the people who've been able to get services - fewer and fewer every year. it also stigmatizes mental illness in a really gross "you're the problem!" way. if the solution being proposed were "fully fund mental health and make services available to everyone and work toward public destigmatization of mental illness," that would actually be a righteous response imo, but that's not what this kinda thing is about w/the NRA at all. it's "the problem isn't guns it's....the big bad crazies!" which is fuckin bullshit.

Broad and deep support for increased gun control: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/08/29/how-americans-actually-feel-about-stronger-gun-laws/

― Οὖτις, Saturday, August 29, 2015 8:59 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

unfortunately public opinion has little power over what ultimately matters -- gun ownership -- which has been enshrined as a constitutional right by the Supreme Court. i'm pretty skeptical that the half-measures that can legally be taken can meaningfully reduce gun-related deaths, and equally as skeptical that the congress will move to do anything in the next decade or so anyway

xxp http://www.buyticketslastminute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Jerry-Seinfeld-Tickets.jpeg

I generally don't have any Facebook friends prone to posting anything bonkers or offensive. But I do have one friend raised in rural Maine who hunts several times a year with his father, mostly turkey or overpopulated deer. He's a reasonable person, if obviously still pro gun. But he is more lax with his online friends, I guess, because every once in a while a kook posts to his Facebook page, so I see them. The other day someone posted a long, I'm sure to him reasonable defense of guns, basically blaming everything but the weapon itself for shootings (a la, "guns don't kill people...", etc). But literally two posts earlier was his first response to the subject (iirc about the Australian gun experiment). His response began " If someone came and took my guns I would shoot them in the face."

Fuck that guy and anything else that comes out of his mouth. He and people like him are the problem. Some of them are mentally ill. Many of them just like to shoot and kill things. The former can ideally be addressed through medication and treatment. There is no treatment for the latter.

if someone came and took my drum, I would drum it all night long

Thinking way back to social studies in school and I remember the 2nd Amendment being more or less taught to be the NRA-friendly interpretation. Perhaps this is why the right is so vigilant about liberal takeover of the educational system, they want to make it SEEM that way, when in reality it is kind of the opposite.

I agree k3vin, just refuting the suggestion upthread that there is not widespread support for gun control measures.

Xp

"Even if the mental health issue is being used by NRA types to derail the conversation, it's pretty clear that US gun/military/state violence culture is and always has been akin to someone with serious issues. I mean "War on terror"? What would you think if someone you interact with on a daily basis told you they were at constantly war with fear?"

something along the lines of "i can relate". i mean, shit, let's be honest, the first american war on terror was started by franklin roosevelt, who later made "freedom from fear" one of the key tenets of his "four freedoms".

the idea that we can't and shouldn't do something about something enshrined as a "right" by the supreme court is pure applesauce. i would advise the collective "you" to look at the state of privacy, and specifically of abortion, in america today to get a better sense of exactly to what extent supreme court decrees _matter_.

reports of active shooter on MIT campus right now

not on campus.

Shooting was in Cambridge. MIT withdrew the alert

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/09/14/active-shooter-delta-state-university-campus/72254712/

active shooter on Delta State University campus. one dead (a professor) :(. still at large, campus on lockdown.

I have a friend that goes here and is locked in her office. I heard through a friend who is talking to her that armed cops came in and told her to stay put as they're on the manhunt.

crazy and ridiculously needless. hope this is over soon.

This shit happening 'every day' is almost literally true

there's this shit going on in phoenix too:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/12/us/phoenix-arizona-i-10-shootings/

(CNN)The civilians -- armed with guns, knives, mace and other weapons -- call themselves "Bolt Force."

Their mission: Helping authorities solve a rash of shootings along a busy stretch of Interstate 10 in downtown Phoenix and elsewhere in the Arizona capital.

They are a stealthy bunch, all dressed in black. They claim 17 members, including men and women of different races. They can be spotted stalking above highway overpasses and patrolling nooks and alleyways around Interstate 10.

The founder goes by one name, Bolt, for security reasons, he says. He jokingly calls the group "guardian angels on steroids."

this will go well i'm sure

The founder goes by one name, Bolt

so that's what happened to the American Gladiators

Nowadays it is easier for people who share these sorts of fantasies to find one another, form groups, and reinforce one another's obsessions.

been avoiding the freeways for about a week now cos of the freeway sniper.

killer at D3lta St@te still at large. my friend (an assistant prof) is ok and home safe. knew the victim - rode in a vehicle with him during her early days on campus. insult to injury was he was technically on medical leave :(

Umpqua Community College in Oregon -- LA Times is saying 20 injured, many sources saying 10+ dead:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nn-oregon-community-college-shooting-20151001-story.html

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/at-least-10-are-dead-after-shooting-at-oregon-college-reports-say-2015-10-01

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQQKNi2WsAApBEd.png

looks like the 2015 record for consecutive days without a mass shooting is 8, from mid-April.

my wife's hospital has stopped taking incoming patients to deal with this, Roseburg is less than an hour south of us. Fucking awful.

TPM's Josh Marshall:

I'm embarrassed to say I get more numb to these shooting tragedies and I think it is because at this point we know with a moral certainty that absolutely nothing will be done to keep guns out of the hands of the rageful, narcissistic, delusional or psychopathic individuals who commit these atrocities.

As a society, we've made our choice.

I send my prayers and best wishes to the victims and their loved ones.

i think this probably sums up the stance of more people than we'd all care to admit

Probably not germane, but maybe I'd budge an inch on my support for Planned Parenthood if the "other side" would do the same on the second amendment.

or maybe we could just govern like we're as civilized as we pretend to be idk

from my wife:

We are sitting on the edge of our seats here. One helicopter has arrived and two ambulances so far. All elective surgeries are on hold. Just horrific.

posted this on the other thread just gonna repeat it

there is not a single lobbying group (afaict) dedicated to this goal - we should start one

https://gunvictimsaction.org/

I hope every single person on that 4chan thread goes to jail

amateurist's link = nope

How sensible gun laws can simultaneously protect the Second Amendment right of the legal gun owner and the rights of non-gun owners to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

not interested in rights of sensible gun owners, interested in taking everyone's guns away and being unashamedly open about that fact

i wasn't vouching for them, just saying that they were out there

they aren't out there!

every gun control organization I've ever seen is explicit about NOT wanting to repeal the 2nd Amendment. Even though this is what the NRA argues the left really wants anyway. We should just own up to it. 2nd Amendment is fucked, does not serve the public good, let's repeal it. Spend decades (as will be necessary) to make this a valid position that becomes part of public discourse, just like the NRA did with their "everyone should be allowed to own all the guns no matter what" position (which would likewise have been considered ludicrous and unreasonable in the decades before they achieved total victory and led us into our present predicament). They are evil, they and their ilk have completely managed to control the terms of the debate - it's wrong and we should say so and put money and resources into countering it.