Follow-ups to minor classics that were a letdown at the time but turned out to be mostly pretty good 1988-91

Green Mind was kind of seen as a letdown if I recall, but mostly because of sellout accusations. I just played the shit out of "The Wagon" and ignored the haters.

Soul Asylum - And The Horse They Rode In On 90

I just got done listening to this and then opened this thread. Voted for the whole serendipity of it all, and it's still a pretty good record. That bass drum beat going into the final chorus of "All the King's Friends".

Also, great multiple album covers.

I remember thinking at the time that about half of the ones on this list were letdowns: my first published record review came from feeling this way about Steady Diet. But I liked the De La and Pixies just fine and the REM and Sonic Youth seemed like returns to form, so hey, to each their own. Of those that seemed like missteps at the time (CVB, Dinosaur, 11th Dream Day, Fugazi and most definitely the Soul Asylum) only the Dream Day record really came back for me so I'm voting for that. I'd have voted for Fakebook if it was here.

The Cult – Sonic Temple 89
The Feelies - Only Life 88
R.E.M. – Green 88
The Replacements – Don’t Tell A Soul 89
The The - Mind Bomb 89

I'll confess these are all pretty terrible records I don't ever really wanna hear again. The XTC one is weak as well, but its hurt by the douple album length - there's still enough good songs on there for me to appreciate it on the whole.

Everyone's going to have different experiences with these albums. It is arguable now that Key Lime Pie is CVB's best, but at the time it was hard to imagine for a lot of people. For point of reference, these are the minor classics I'm referring to:

CBV - Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart
Cult - Electric
De La Soul - 3 Ft High N Rising
Dinosaur Jr. - Bug
EDD - Prairie School Freakout
Feelies - The Good Earth
Felt - Pictorial Jackson Review
Fishbone - Truth and Soul
Metallica - duh
Pixies - Surfer Rosa
R.E.M. - Document
Replacements - Pleased To Meet Me
Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation
Soul Asylum - Hang Time
The The - Infected
Woodentops - Giant
XTC - Skylarking

I don't think I'm the only one that thought Doolittle sounded a bit tame and ordinary compared to the shocking brilliance of Surfer Rosa. Like I said, I appreciated it more later on, but never as much as the previous one.

CBV - Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart

^^^actually the worst CVB record! Terrible engineering work on that one.

Fakebook came after President, which I thought was an improvement.

god how i wish there was a Metallica album titled Duh

especially if Elektra had forced a change after retailers objected to the working title Fuckin' Duh

reality of my surroundings = fishbone's masterwork

This poll baffles me. Daydream Nation was a minor classic? Even if you despise the album, you gotta dmit it looms largest in their oeuvre (if not in a daydream nation).

Key Lime Pie is CVB's best album

yup, what they said. that's actually one of my favorite albums of ever by anyone.

Don't Tell a Soul is NOT "mostly pretty good."

Camper Van Beethoven - Key Lime Pie 89
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead 91
Fishbone - The Reality of My Surroundings 91
The Pixies – Doolittle 89
R.E.M. – Green 88
Sonic Youth – Goo 90
The The - Mind Bomb 89
The Woodentops - Wooden Foot Cops On A Highway 88
XTC – Oranges & Lemons 89

__________________________________

I have always thought all of these albums are badass

Other than Green, which was half-a-clunker, I'd say this is right. Nice to see that Document is considered a minor classic, tho.

easy vote for de la soul is dead

Don't Tell A Soul was a letdown (but it did give the world Talent Show, so . . .). The criminally underrated Replacements disc is All Shook Down.

(xp)

I really, really dislike Daydream Nation (and I realise I'm pretty much on my own here) but I thought both Goo and Dirty were both pretty fine albums.

It's no Bad Moon Rising, nor Confusion is Sex, but Goo has to be the one for me.

Don't Tell a Soul is NOT "mostly pretty good."

yeah its mostly crap. Talent Show excepted.

Don't Tell a Soul has some outrageously funny lyrics

most of the album is an outrage.

I love Don't Tell A Soul but we've had this debate before.

Oranges And Lemons is comfortably XTC's worst hour imo, although there ARE gaps in my knowledge (first two records, Mummer)

the live versions of the Don't Tell a Soul material are infinitely superior to the album versions. Just some really terrible production decisions made on that one.

Oranges And Lemons is comfortably XTC's worst hour imo, although there ARE gaps in my knowledge (first two records, Mummer)

― Zayatte Mondatta (country matters), Friday, April 3, 2009 7:23 PM (2 minutes ago)

yeah see i would give that reward to every album that came after oranges and lemons personally

Al, you don't think Sister - DN or Goo - Dirty is less of a stretch than DN - Goo?

xposts

I loved Goo when I was a kid, and it still contains my favourite SY song--"Disappearer"--but the album as a whole seems really really slight to me nowadays...it's one of those high school albums, like The Bends and Gish, that I just can't hear anymore...

whereas Doolittle pwns...it was just revealed to me, like two days ago, that "Hey" is a searing vision of a humanity bound to the world of flesh and filth...so that.

"yeah its mostly crap. Talent Show I'll Be You excepted."

Who didn't like Doolittle?

Now for my favorite pasttime, "you forgot about..."

Throwing Muses - House Tornado (1988, following up 1986 debut)
They Might Be Giants - Lincoln (1989, following up 1986 debut)
Game Theory - Two Steps From the Middle Ages (1988, following up Lolita Nation from 1987)

"Oranges And Lemons" is my favourite album of 1989, which makes it a very obvius pick for me here. Surely no "letdown" even though it isn't quite as fantastic as "Skylarking". But then, "Skylarking" is in my Top 3 albums of all time.

yeah see i would give that reward to every album that came after oranges and lemons personally

"Nonsuch" is amazing. IMO the second best XTC album ever!

^^^I agree!

Although my #1 is probably Black Sea or English Settlement or something (haven't quite sorted out the order...Nonsuch is definitely 2nd tho)

Also Apple Venus is awesome, wtf haters

"Slight" is how I'd describe Goo too. "Disappearer" is my keeper as well, though "Dirty Boots" and "Mote" aren't bad.

Metallica looks best right now but I haven't heard a bunch of these. Not even sure why ...And Justice For All would be considered a letdown. I think "One" might be the best thing they've done.

xposts

They Might Be Giants - Lincoln (1989, following up 1986 debut)

?! If anything this is even better than the debut, probably the best in their catalog (lolz I just dl'd it yesterday cuz my cassette copy is dead)

in fairness i think i mostly dont "get" XTC

xposts: i still think ...And Justice was a huge letdown, but maybe a mitigated one considering how much i hate the black album

yeah i look at ...and justice as a let down too but a few people i've talked to have told me it's their favourite Metallica album. I love Blackened and a few of the other tracks but it's a million miles away from the awesomeness of Master.

given how much farther Metallica had to go its more like ...And Justice For All is their last halfway decent gasp.

not being a huge Metallica fan during my youth, Justice was always my fave bcz it sounded to me like the soundtrack to the original Legend of Zelda...

more like it ramps up all the awesome things about master of puppets

(parts of it anyway, amirite? xpost)

don't get love for Key Lime Pie, CVB became more like other bands w/ that one, who needs that? (I don't care bout engineering btw)

I like Oranges & Lemons and Doolittle just fine.

ha more like what other bands?

I can't think of very many albums that sound like that one.

Al, you don't think Sister - DN or Goo - Dirty is less of a stretch than DN - Goo?

xposts

― Sundar, Friday, April 3, 2009 3:26 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

For me personally, no. I feel like there's kind of a subtle but significant leap from the manic in-the-red feel of Sister to the more controlled atmosphere and longer, proggier instrumental sections of DN. But Goo has the same producer as DN and all but maybe a handful of songs on it wouldn't have fit in on its predecessor pretty easily. Dirty to me has a whole different feel from the previous albums, lotta shorter crunchier songs with a more 'grunge' bass sound, so very Vig and post-Nevermind, and just a lot of other stuff they had never tried before lyrically and musically, for better or worse.

Doolittle is better than most albums ever, let alone whatever else is on this list.

btw re title, 3 Feet High & Rising and Daydream Nation are not minor classics

I said that above, Morbs. :)

Goo has some of Kim Gordon's best moments, as well as one of Sonic Youth's best songs in "Kool Thing". The furious guitar mantra at the end of that track is astonishing...

kool thing is not one of sonic youth's best songs...

I would add Lovesexy by Prince to this list.

its good to have you back, Tuomas...

the main thing i fathom from this poll is that one has to be pretty on the ball/presumptuous to call fugazi's bluff on 'steady diet of nothing' way back when it was released.

I thought that Public Enemy would be on this poll.

lolz was not expecting De La to win this but that's cool

I was. It is.

I didn't realize that 1) Bug is considered a "minor classic" or 2) that people consider Green Mind to be pretty good (outside of "The Wagon", which is still a stone-cold classic.)

I've never even listened to Key Lime Pie even thought CBV were one of my favorite band of the 80s because I was so disappointed by the useless missed opportunity "matchstick" cover.

from the Woodentops' wiki page

Generally well received by critics, the album's sound was characterised by acoustic guitars, but also featured accordion, marimba, strings, and trumpet sounds, showing influences of Suicide.

?!!

Doesn't Paul's Boutique fit this criteria (although it seems more like a late blooming rather than just being let down, I gather).

search the woodentops ep which featured dark and occasionally hyperkinetic percussive stuff. giant was more expansive with kind of a strummy folkpoppy feel at times. i dont remember wooden foot cops at all.

also, ive not heard any woodentops since at least 1990.

If any good comes from this poll, it'll be that someone discovers The Woodentops. I wrote this when I picked up a remaster of their 1986 debut (unknown to some, minor classic to others, stone fucking cold classic for me):

The Woodentops took bits of Suicide, The Talking Heads, XTC, Echo & the Bunnymen and especially the frenetic rhythms of The Feelies, all treated with acoustic folk, twisted with other instrumentation like marimbas, accordian and trumpet. While The Feelies also tackled acoustic guitars on their second album, The Good Earth, The Woodentops still sounded quite different. Their songs had a perfect balance of diverse experimentalism and pop hooks. Morrissey constantly talked them up at the time, which was a brave gesture, considering the strong possibility that Giant more consistently great than The Smiths’ The Queen Is Dead. If it weren’t for Morrissey’s clever lyrics and two untouchable singles from that album, I’d even say Giant crushed it. So why didn’t they become huge? Probably because their magic only lasted through their debut album. They were on Rough Trade, an indie label unable to push a band without help from a string of hit singles like The Smiths had. Columbia did release the album in the U.S., but it didn’t catch on. The 1988 followup, Wooden Foot Cops On The Highway, while actually very good, wasn’t able to measure up to Giant.

“Get It On,” gives a sense of the propulsive energy of much of the album, along with “Love Train,” Hear Me James,” “Shout,” and “Travelling Man.” “Good Thing” is wonderfully original love ballad that made it onto several high school era mix tapes. The album gets better and better, peaking with “Last Time” and “Everything Breaks,” two of their most distinct songs. I desperately don’t want it to end, and the four bonus cuts collected from the Well Well Well EP provides some relief. I also downloaded the out of print singles collection (“Steady Steady” is a heavy dirge about terminal cancer, and one of their most atypical, but powerful songs) and their 1987 live album, Hypno Beat Live (where they play three times as fast! Who needs Slayer?) to extend my buzz.

Turned out they reunited a couple years ago, toured the UK, and are supposedly working on new music.

I got "Giant", never really got into it.

One of those "should have liked them more than I did on paper" things.

I picked it up the cassette while in hs because of a review in Spin or RS and loved it, but had sort of forgotten about it by the end of college, and listened again for the first time while putting together a mix for 20 yr reunion. I feel like I get them more than the first time around.

OK, Fasty, on the strength of your review above (mention the Feelies and I get all hotnbothered) I'm downloading Giant now from eMu.

Neither Fish Nor Flesh owns this thread.

[q] Goo has some of Kim Gordon's best moments, as well as one of Sonic Youth's best songs in "Kool Thing". The furious guitar mantra at the end of that track is astonishing...

― Dan S, Saturday, April 4, 2009 5:19 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

kool thing is not one of sonic youth's best songs...

― jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, April 4, 2009 12:24 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark [q]

Me: Kool Thing is one of Sonic Youth's best songs.

you: Kool Thing is not one of Sonic Youth's best songs.

Probably I'm inviting trouble by even commenting, but I truly love, love, love, these simple assertions of opposing opinions. I don't know why. PS I am old, therefore none of these albums means anything to me in comparison to, say, "White Music," "Soul Mining," oh, never mind (NOT "Nevermind").

Cool poll question; however, one album here sticks out for me and that's Doolittle. I remember the feeling at that time being more along the lines of, "How could they possibly make ANOTHER album this good?" If that album let you down you had some crazy inflated expectations.

Kool Thing might be better than I give it credit, but I usually go under the assumption that in the early 90s the worst SY songs usually got released as singles...clear that b.s. away (along w/ the vox) and Kool Thing actually has a delirial ghoulishness that I find endearing...

Neither Fish Nor Flesh owns this thread.

this is kind of OTM only I really loved Neither Fish Nor Flesh when it came out

It's good ("Billy Don't Fall"), but Symphony or Damn, which can you find cheap in any used record store, is even better.

"I Have Faith In These Desolate Times" A+++++

Wild Card is also fantastic. Poor old arrogant crazy TTD

huh i guess i should give camper van beethovan a chance? dude always kinda bugged me, at least in cracker who was more my era i guess.

I always hated Cracker (who were also more my era) and I just think of CVB being a jokey cover band cause I've only heard their cover of "pictures of matchstick men" and "take the skinheads bowling".

what you haven't heard their jokey cover of Black Flag's "Wasted"? or Ringo's "Photograph"?

Or their hoedown cover of "White Riot?" Or "Interstellar Overdrive?" Or Sonic Youth's "I Love Her All the Time?" Or their track-for-track cover of "Tusk?" Among other awesome CVB covers.

(Well, OK, the reinvented "Tusk" is pretty hit-or-miss, but the other covers the band has done are all awesome).

missed this poll, would've voted for Only Life -- sometimes my fave Feelies record, though they all occasionally hold that title.

Listened to The Woodentops' Giant. First impressions: A little Good Earth-era Feelies, but more Conspiracy-era Jazz Butcher with a bit of Housemartins feel in the vocals. Pretty good; I would probably now have very fond memories of it if I had heard it at the time. Flisten in 2009: only OK, lyrics a bit weak. But def. has the potential to grow on me (or maybe not).

I realized I left out a few more:

Love And Rockets - Earth-Sun-Moon 87
The lack of the heavy buzzsaw sounds of Express lead me to write this album off at the time. Now it sounds pretty inspired compared to their more disappointing self-titled album from '89.

The Church - Starfish 88
Heyday was a big favorite in 1986, but when this came out, it sounded too clean and sterile to me. In retrospect, their singles were some of the prettiest stuff you'd hear on the radio at the time.

Julian Cope - Peggy Suicide 91
I got turned on to 1987's Saint Julian before I even was aware of Teardrop Explodes. Reading his Head-On/Repossessed auto-bio reminded me that he also released the mediocre My Nation Underground in 1988, which I totally was unaware of at the time. I remember checking out bits of Peggy Suicide at the college radio station and being impressed by the concept, but not the songs. Finally got a copy just recently and still growing.

Earth Sun Moon is their best album

Didn't get to vote in this the first time around (I would have gone for Goo, which I actually think is miles better as a brilliant pop album than the unfocused sprawl that was Daydream Nation)...

But Starfish? Come on, most casual listeners would probably say that was the Church's finest hour. And still their biggest commercial success.

Ditto Earth Sun Moon, which was really L&R's breakthrough album. I'm not sure how you're judging this "followups" business here.

Explained upthread, but they were judged at the time with my teenage ears that were expecting something better. And now I'm re-evaluating them a couple decades later.