Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D

Pigpen died between the winter (Feb) and Spring (Mar) tours. Not that he was on the former.

he did a pretty decent jerry impression, guitar-wise!

― brimstead, Monday, July 6, 2015 3:36 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes he did, a few wrong-tone moments in chicago especially aside. wish i'd been in the latter - i passed on a ticket to at least one of the shows - but santa clara was fun.

I'm overloaded with Dead stuff (haven't even opened the last Dave's Pick that arrived) but this new one looks fucking amazing. Really looking forward to this installment and glad I subscribed.

73 is generally regarded as a transitional year between 72 and 74 (both widely considered to be peak years), but I've heard some pretty good 73 shows.

Can discerning Deadheads tell me, is there much of a difference between early '73 and late '73? The two late '73 shows I've heard (Evanston, IL and Denver) sounded like they'd lost a lot of steam since Europe '72.

I am one of many who think 73 was their best year. Early 73 sounds transitional, I guess because of Pigpen, but also due to new and very different material. They played many long, loooong shows that year and sound tired and quiet at times, but I think they hit some very high highs is Nov/Dec. the Boston show in early Dec (can't remember exact date but I think it is a Dicks Pick) with Wharf Rat > Half Step > Playin is one of my fave things ever. Super mellow, even by GD standards, and totally great. My kids have fallen asleep to it many times.

Total bummer that there appears to be zero video from 73. If anyone knows otherwise, I'd love to know!

Always had a real fondness for the very first Dick's Picks, which is taken from a late 73 show without Donna (who was preggo). First disc opens with a fantastic long jammy 'Here Comes Sunshine', which they didn't do that often, and the second disc is all gold:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick%27s_Picks_Volume_1

73 daves picks looks good, love 73 stuff. but jeez, i can't spend all my money on grateful dead live shows!
i did listen to the 4-disc 30 Trips Around The Sun, and aside from a few unfortunate 80s-90s moments, it's pretty great! actually a fair amount of the 80s-90s stuff was killer.

DP1 is yawnsome imo

I am a great dissenter on 72-74. more mickey hart please.

'73 is tremendous imo. I don't think I'll ever land on a year about which I say "this is it, this is my permanent favorite" -- it depends on where I'm at -- '77 is magic for sure, '72 is incredibly solid, '69 shows right up until they hand Pigpen the mic are probably my most reliable favorites -- but '73 is '72 + something extra that I don't think they really resolve later. I'm not a huge fan of the Wall of Sound year -- '74 shows have huge peaks, but I don't love the Wake of the Flood material that much except when "Stella Blue" really takes off. But '73 really digs in hard on the C&W/Bakersfield feel, they sound so locked in and almost angry? sometimes -- like the Nassau show, they land right in "Jack Straw" with a momentum that's pretty intense to my ear. I think '73 is probably more interesting than '72, even if the '72 peaks are undeniable. It's like there's a whole face to the band that shows in the first halves of a lot of '73 shows that you don't see much after that, and it was a really good pocket.

Is there sort of like a canonical live album if you want to get into the dead? I've always liked American Beauty a lot, but get the idea the band was all about the live shows.

I am a big fan of those moments with less Mickey Hart personally.

Thanks for all the '73 info. I just remembered, in addition to the Evanston (hit-or-miss) and Denver (more hit than miss) shows, I've heard the Winterland box. Holy hell, that was a chore to get through. It killed my then-new Dead fanaticism stone dead, and I couldn't listen to them again for almost a year.

sometimes -- like the Nassau show, they land right in "Jack Straw" with a momentum that's pretty intense to my ear.

This makes me want to further investigate 1973, lest I have the wrong impression(s) -- is this the March '73 or September '73 Nassau show?

I am a big fan of those moments with less Mickey Hart personally.

― grandavis, Friday, October 9, 2015 9:12 AM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think he and Kreutzmann work brilliantly together on the '68 shows I've heard. But I never got into '77 -- I realize I'm in the minority in disliking the Cornell show -- because things got ploddy, and I blame Mickey.

Canonical live dead?
>
Live Dead was probably the #1 record like that. Possibly Europe '72.
At least during the actual time.

The From he Vault series are all Good I think, especially the 1st 2. & that covers quite a diversity of style from 1 being one of the few Live dates in '75 to 2 being at the peak of '68.

Dicks Picks is 30+ volumes long most of which is triple or at least double cds.

Dave's Picks is a little less.

Europe '72 now has every show released.
Live Dead has the Fillmore run its partially taken from released as a box set though I think that might be gone.

The may '70 Dick's Picks might be the closest in time to the American Beauty era but I think may be a lot more jammed out.

I am a great dissenter on 72-74. more mickey hart please.

― it's not a tuomas (benbbag), Friday, October 9, 2015 12:50 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Couldn't disagree more. I think the Dead were best with a single drummer.

And Dick's Picks 1 is great! It gets pretty "out," too. Along with Rockin' The Rhein, it's my go-go GD gateway drug to play for people reared on Sonic Youth and noise rock (as opposed to, say, electric Miles or Bakersfield country or...)

Err, that's go-to GD gateway drug...

was just listening to rockin' the rhein this morning - might be the single best euro 72 show that i've heard.
and i think hart adds a lot in the early days of the band, but he does end up contributing to the plodddddd post-75.

Yeah, Rockin' the Rhein is fantastic. That was the first time I ever heard "Black-Throated Wind," "Loser," and "Wharf Rat" -- that one just comes on like a sunrise. So beautiful.

Probably my favorite show of Godchaux's, too. He goes to Saturn on "Dark Star."

yeah, godchaux seems particularly inspired on rhein -- there are shows where you can completely forget he's even there, but on rhein he's great.

I was just thinking that the idea of a canonical live dead set is probably apocryphal anyway. Would think a lot of the audience were probably not experiencing the music at the gigs they even attended in real time since a lotof them would be tripping.

Wondering when recordings from certain eras were traded too and in what level of completeness. looks like even something as recent as teh Dead Taping Companion hasn't got all the recordings it's talking about in the more complete form they're currently around in.

So as to canonical, not sure what actually counts as being.
& there are now almost infinitely more live shows officially released than were at the time. Wonder if anybody's actually listened through everything released more tahn once?
archive.org used to have all the existing shows up on its site but several of the soundboards were taken down after Dick's Picks started being released. Or some other significant point had happened? change in Dead management? Setting up of the Dead Shop?
I know there were a lotof soundboards up there when i was in university in the early years of the 00ies but they got taken down at a certain point, there are still a lot of aud(ience) recordings up there or certainly were last time I looked.

i count the dead among my favorite bands but i am mostly content listening to 68-72 tbh. cornell show never did much for me. i am always open to the possibility that the remaining three decades' worth of music will reveal itself to me someday

there are shows where you can completely forget he's even there

Ha, yeah, especially the Europe '72 box, where he's buried in the mix and just barely audible.

xxp there are still a ton of soundboards on archive.org, but for the most part, they're just streamable, not downloadable (think they switched over to this about a decade ago?) still an amazing resource -- the archive is really what got me deep into deadhead-dom.

Did Hart never get back to the groove he had going on with Kreutzman before he left. I don't tend to listen to the band much post return from the 74-75 retirement. I kknow he';s talked about as tentative when he gets back throughout '76 at least I thought he had returned after that though.

& yeas the interplay before he quit in '71 is normally pretty good. I tend not to listen to the drum solo stuff though.

Prefer 100 Year Hall to Rockin the Rhein if we're talking 72 German shows (lol @ niche deadery), but both are great (and yeah, the the third disc of Rhein is beautiful)

Think Keith got worse the longer he was in the band (and the drugs took over) - he's especially absent on '78 shows

The weird thing about the Hart Returns! years is that Kreutzmann started tuning his kit a lot lower (going by the Cornell show and other stray 70s and 80s tracks I've heard). The sharp crack of the snare is replaced by the flat thud of someone dropping a bong on a shag carpet. Dunno if Kreutzmann just wanted to change things up or if Hart suggested a different tuning, but either way, I blame Mickey.

there are still a ton of soundboards on archive.org, but for the most part, they're just streamable, not downloadable (think they switched over to this about a decade ago?) still an amazing resource -- the archive is really what got me deep into deadhead-dom.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/grateful-grabber/oaodbbeaklbdmjcghbkcfgmioafnjbfe?hl=en

oh nice, missed that -- looks easier than some of the internet jujitsu you had to perform before...

Ha, "bong on a shag carpet" is such a great phrase! I've said this many times, but I backed into what Dead fandom I have via JGB, and from there to latter period stuff like Dozin' at the Knick. I like One From The Vault a lot too, but I'm still not a super huge fan of earlier '70s and especially '60s Dead, so I realize my opinion probably doesn't count for much.

_there are still a ton of soundboards on archive.org, but for the most part, they're just streamable, not downloadable (think they switched over to this about a decade ago?) still an amazing resource -- the archive is really what got me deep into deadhead-dom._

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/grateful-grabber/oaodbbeaklbdmjcghbkcfgmioafnjbfe?hl=en🔗

_there are still a ton of soundboards on archive.org, but for the most part, they're just streamable, not downloadable (think they switched over to this about a decade ago?) still an amazing resource -- the archive is really what got me deep into deadhead-dom._

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/grateful-grabber/oaodbbeaklbdmjcghbkcfgmioafnjbfe?hl=en🔗

Haven't done this in a long time, but if you go to a specific show page on the archive, and replace "details" with "download" in the URL, it takes you to an index of downloadable files. Pretty sneaky!

"access denied"

Wish I'd known that trick when it worked!

BTW I've had a lot of luck in the past buying cheap lots of Grateful Dead shows on eBay by searching for "Greatful Dead"

"Couldn't disagree more. I think the Dead were best with a single drummer."

so do most people. they seem to dislike polyrhythm.

Have been on a vacation but thanks for good suggestions, have booked Live Dead and Dick's Picks 1 - looking forward to hear what it's all abt

L/D is fantastic, but those will give you a very hermetic-sounding version of the band imo. For something with the presence of actual concert attendance, try Europe '72 and/or Dozin at the Knick, the latter latter-day but much better approximating the sound of an AUDience recording rather than one from the SoundBoarD.

That makes sense, just booked Europe 72 too. Cool that the library has this stuff...

30 Trips Around The Sun: 4-disc sampler, 26 bucks. Might do it; anybody heard most/all of this material? I've heard some of the early stuff; pretty good.
http://www.amazon.com/Trips-Around-The-Sun-Definitive/dp/B00YDF76AK/ref=pd_sim_15_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51U1LZJdfjL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR121%2C160_&refRID=0MK5E9H906F07A9QR0MM

i'm really enjoying it, but i'm not a dead scholar by any means. some really magical moments on the second disc especially, where the band is just totally alive and flying through musical wormholes

This makes me want to further investigate 1973, lest I have the wrong impression(s) -- is this the March '73 or September '73 Nassau show?

late answering this, but it's the March one

THe only thing about 73 I never really got into was the addition of 2 saxophonists for a brief while. Haven't listened to anything from that collaboration for years since I've been trying to avoid it. Could be taht it did work better than I'm remembering it.

But otherwise it does seem to be a pretty good year. I think most of the time before the supposed retirement is pretty great with the possible exceptionof '71 when they were stretching out less for a while. Though they did seem to be working as the greatest bar band ever I don't think they were as great as their more improvisatory material. Seem to be back on form by '72 and maybe it is only a short term thing after the departure of Micky Hart on discovering his father's embezzlement.

I do find myself a lot less interested in music past that retirement, though i do still like One From |The vault which is one of their rare dates from '75. Is that the date repeated in this box set?

Finally picked up Two From the Vault after the suggestions to do so over a year ago upthread. Didn't realize it was a '68 recording. Did the lame thing and skipped right to 'Dark Star'/'St. Stephen'. Currently getting all jammy while my mom watches Megyn Kelly.

Take that, rest of the house.

Yeah August 68 which seems to be their peak month of a peak year. May '70 is up there too, not sure what month in 69 though Live Dead is around February I think.

August 68 is also when the bonus material on the remaster of Anthem of the Sun is from.

So, can anyone recommend a good '75/Blues for Allah era show?

They only played four shows in '75. One of them was at Great American Music Hall, which is an incredibly small room for the Dead. That's the One from the Vault show, which is rightly acclaimed. '76 is better; I really like the Oakland Coliseum shows from October.

Cool, thanks!

Have now gone back and listened to all of Two From the Vault. 'Morning Dew' is awesome. Probably my fav version, after Europe '72.

late answering this, but it's the March one

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, October 31, 2015 9:31 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thanks for the info! Makes sense, as all the '73 shows I've heard were later in the year/somewhat tired-sounding.

Just ordered One From the Vault.

Curse your good deals, Discogs marketplace.

really digging One From the Vault so far

yeah i really came around on one from the vault (and '75 in general) recently. in particular, the vocal harmonies are really dialed in for once. might be the smaller venue that helped.

I'm hoping to get mine in the mail today.

xpost
Also, they hadn't run their voices ragged playing 200 shows a year, that year

Really like this '76 Dick's Picks, btw - good clean sound, tight performances, great song selection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick%27s_Picks_Volume_33

ha, yeah that's true re: the vocals.
the almost all instrumental SNACK benefit show from earlier in 75 is pretty amazing, wild stuff.