ILX Parenting 6: "Put Some Goddamn Pants On Before You Go Outside!" is a thing I say now

guess I just have to not talk about it for a while and let it blow over?

I would say no. I would continue talking about it because not talking about it makes it more likely that she will internalize a fucked-up societal view that you don't espouse.

The next time she does it, tell her she must have hurt her own feelings by doing that and see where that leads you.

(This is what I'm referencing btw: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/18/doll.study.parents/)

I...think not talking about how people look different from each other is something that happens a lot and makes those differences seem secret or shameful to kids? As you are already seeing, our discomfort with talking about race is v transmissable but kids don't have all the context so it makes the whole topic seem like A Problem. Idk what the solution is but I just think that avoiding discussion will only drive it further underground and make it seem like something forbidden.

xxp bingo

I hear you and agree with you in theory, but iirc your little ones are younger and you haven't gotten to toddler psychology yet, and every time I try to talk to her about it it's just this weird rabbit hole where she feels guilty but doesn't actually understand what I'm telling her.

Like I think it would be easier if she were 5, or even 4 maybe. I do tell her things like "people have all different kinds of eyes, all different colors of skin" etc. I don't mean generally never talk about race, tbc.

I...think not talking about how people look different from each other is something that happens a lot and makes those differences seem secret or shameful to kids

yes. don't do this. talk about it.

yea it is good to talk about it.

my son started preschool a couple weeks ago and there are two teachers in the room, a white woman and a black woman he was not saying their names at all but referring to them as the "white skin lady" and the "brown skin lady", he has been asking why some people have white skin and others have brown skin a lot lately. we talked to him and said that people like to be referred to by their names and not how they look (something we said again when he would talk about one of our bald friends as "the no-hair man")

agree though that the toddler "why" questions are very intense and it is easier than not to just confuse them more, but yea still obviously worth talking about

and to clarify even though we said he should refer to his teachers by their names instead of their skin color we are still talking about why some people have different skin colors, hair texture, etc. it does help that we live in a fairly diverse area and he's had a ton of people in his life of various races

My kids (who go to a mostly-non-white school) asked "why do brown people litter more?"

because no white people will pick up after them

Double parent teacher conferences today. That'll knock the wind out of you for a good 8-10 hours

I have relatives who talk like these people because they're teachers themselves: "Beeps excels greatly on the DRA 2.8-4.1, but her lab results skew lower on the ACFAL because she doesn't apply herself."

ME: ...

TEACHER: "Dedicated Reading Acceleration. Arkansas Criteria for Accelerated Learning."

ME: "OK, that fills in some of the gaps, I think..."

So Em's gone back to work as of last week (Weds-Fri until Xmas, then Tues-Thurs thereafter), but, obviously, she'd rather not be at work, and not have N in nursery. I think we've both been surprised by how much she's taken to being a mum. So I'm vaguely looking at houses and thinking 'could we downsize and exist just on my wage for a couple of years?' but realistically it's just not practical.

So, stories about going back to work, or managing not to, please, I guess.

I went back, both times, full time the first time, and dropped 3 hours the second time. I actually found the second time harder, maybe because after 12 months of maternity leave I was leaving them both, rather than just a one year old, also I found returning to work a lot harder second time round - the attitude seemed different, I was (and still am) seen as part time, even though I've only dropped three hours, because I leave at 1.45pm two days a week and leave early the other days, even though I'm in ridiculously early - out of sight out of mind.

Three days a week sounds good, so long as she doesn't end up doing more than three days of work a week... Was she part-time before, or is that new? Can you afford a cleaner? that made a HUGE difference to everyone when we finally got one, not arguing/brooding over who was going to hoover etc.was massive.

I think the shock of going back after I had Aidan was what made me more attachment based with Molly, compensating for the time in childcare, if that makes sense?

Part-time is new; she was full-time before this.

We're investigating a cleaner now, actually!

Hey, good to hear you guys are doing ok. Did N's sleep improve?
I'm not going back for another few weeks, and I have really mixed feelings about it. Baby still has quite bad random bouts of stranger anxiety.
I'll be going back 3 days/week after being full-time until now. It's a job-share, so that'll be interesting. I think one of the weirdest things for me is that my OH will be dropping off the baby at nursery, rather than me, and I feel like I'm the 'expert' atm, OH has only had the baby on his own for one day so far.

I have already started with a cleaner! But tbh it's slightly a pain in the arse while I'm at home, trying to work out where to be. But lovely to have a clean house and will be awesome when they'll just come in while I'm at work.
My OH has also had similar thoughts of downsizing but it's not at all realistic for us.

H took a year off the first time around and had a really hard time with it. For the first year after that K split time between a nanny and her grandmother, and then the year after that she did preschool. H is a teacher so she can pick up K. H is planning to take a minimum of a little over a year this time, but if we can financially swing it we may do longer.

I do strongly recommend a cleaner, laundry service, or whatever household help you can swing. In re "where to be" ours comes on Saturday every other week and we just use the time for family outings.

I've also heard it said that the quality of the time you spend with kids is more important than the quantity. Make rules for yourself about being completely present during certain times, e.g. put away the smart phone from home through bed other than for urgent uses.

I went back to work after the barbaric US standard of three months of unpaid leave and it was pretty devastating. I didn't and don't particularly want to be a stay at home mom, but three months was not enough. I was able to go back part-ish time, and to only take Ivy to day care three days/week and work the other two days with her strapped to my chest for another month or so. Then she started going to daycare four days per week and I tried to fit all of my work into four days and take Fridays off, but ended up getting in trouble at work for not having my head in the game, so she started five days and has been going five days since.

My employer was right - my head wasn't in the game. I was exhausted and missed my baby and resentful. I'm still resentful, even though Ivy and I are both happy that she's in daycare full time now. I wish I could leave work early to get her because I hate that we barely have two hours together in the evenings before she goes to bed but god forbid I not work as much as humanly possible.

That's not very helpful, I would imagine, but the truth is that it can be really fucking hard and I'm still really tired all the time.

Oh, it was definitely easier after Ivy weened and I didn't have to pump any more.

i'm also slightly doubting my decision to choose nursery over childminder as it'll be so much bigger and less like a home environment. I mean it looks awesome, loads to do, but if he's showing signs of shyness already I hope it won't be overwhelming at the age of 1. How the hell are you meant to decide these things :/ (here you have to sign up to nursery like months in advance and some even have waiting lists of 18 months)

xp yeah 3 months is crazy, you have my sympathy. I think any time after 6 months I could have just about dealt with but before that, ugh.
My baby has self-weaned around 10 months, much to my kind of dismay

I think daycare/nursery really helped Ivy turn into a very outgoing kid, and since she is and will be an only child, it's giving her a lot of life skills as far as sharing and interacting with other kids. We almost got a nanny early on because getting her to daycare was such a massive undertaking but I'm glad we were too tired/busy to every follow through. Plus she loves her teachers and will randomly mention them by name now and then.

Oh, race issue update: after not talking about it for a couple weeks, K asked me "Will it hurt feelings if I say I am a French girl?"

YES YES IT WILL

I didn't make a big deal of it, just a 30-minute lecture on the historical context of racism against Chinese immigrants, and concepts relating to whiteness, power and privilege, and a few assigned readings after. I think it went well.

"thank you father. i appreciate your willingness to teach me. namaste"

that link DJP posted is fucking chilling. this seems like the nut of it:

white parents "want to give their kids this sort of post-racial future when they're very young and they're under the wrong conclusion that their kids are colorblind. ... It's in the absence of messages of tolerance that they will naturally ... develop these skin preferences."

yeah I think that's right, it's just that I feel like she's not QUITE at the age where she can comprehend this stuff. I mean I think it's good for her to see and be around people of different races as much as possible and I think it's good to talk about the fact that people have different skin colors, features, etc., I just couldn't find a way to convey "don't make fun of the way other people look" when she doesn't even really understand what making fun of someone is.

But... she does seem to understand what making fun of someone is? Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you're presenting what she is saying.

What they say and what they actually understand at this age can be a big gulf. I think when she initially did "I am a Chinese girl" I don't think she comprehended the idea of imitating someone in a mean way, she just comprehended imitating, like being "a Chinese girl" wasn't distinct from pretending to be a character from TV or a family member or something. When I tried to convey that it could be hurtful it seemed to lead to a lot of misplaced shame that didn't accompany understanding, like she understood that she had done something bad without realizing it but didn't understand why. Again, I think what I'm saying will seem clearer when your kids get to the 3 age range.

So Henry seems be reaching the peak of his pushing mortality to the limits phase (please please let it be a phase). A couple of weeks ago he tripped over nothing, busting his lip open and knocking his two front teeth clear out. Yesterday, he rammed his wombat body full tilt through a window screen, bounced off a bush, then bounced off the side of the house before landing 10 feet below and scraping his foot up pretty good. I'm starting to freak out.

agh Sunny that sounds terrifying! I'm already worried about mine knocking out the few teeth he has!

my wife went back to work about a month after #1's birth, but we're both uni teachers so our schedules were super flexible. still, those days were hilarious.

well the dentist said his pacifier usage was fucking up his teeth so that finally convinced my wife to take 'em away cold turkey and that went about as well as could be expected.

time to man up and learn how to go to sleep, little dude

how old? I am dreading doing this. He only has it in his cot but that's going to be bad enough.

approaching 3

We told the boys that we were "giving the pacifiers to babies who need them," and they were cool with it.

that's what we did, we put them all in an envelope, let him put it in the mailbox (sorry US postal service)

he was cool with it at the time. Less so upon going to bed.

like she understood that she had done something bad without realizing it but didn't understand why.

tbf this is what adults feel when they get called out on unthinking racism too

not saying your daughter is racist btw!! just that these little memes and received wisdoms can creep in from all angles and we rarely know how they got there or why - it is a confusing feeling

I have clear memories of a few times as a kid where my parents explained/scolded me on some social fauxpas or other and I remember not even remotely understanding WHY what I did was wrong, and no one ever really explaining it in a way I could comprehend.

^ heh, that happens now except it's one of my parents who's not quite getting it.

"OK, so you're telling me that Chinamen don't live in the Orient. How am I being racist then."

oh man my parents live in that can of worms, ugh

Keren today asked me if I "Daven to Hashem" (pray to god, basically, but in a formal, ritualistic way). Really getting sick of this Jewish preschool thing.

Haha well u kinda asked for it no?

yeah but idk I went to a preschool run by a conservative synagogue and it was not quite to this degree

Did N's sleep improve? Pah! She is still rubbish, by and large. We've had some improvements but she's wildly inconsistent. Last night was a good night, and she slept from 8pm to 2am, woke at 4am, and then 6am, when we brought her in with us. Last week, when Em went back to work, it was every two hours from 10pm, mostly. The week or so before that had been poor too as she'd had a cold; prior to that, we'd had a few occasions where she'd only woken twice.

Currently using 'The little rabbit who wanted to fall asleep' to try and neuro-linguistic programme her to sleep; semi-successful so far, though last night I got all the way to the end and she was laughing at me so Em then had to read it to her again from the start.

Last week we pretty-much co-slept, actually, by the end of the week. Path of least resistance.

The US maternity set-up is just insane. I can't comprehend it.