Ongoing U.S Police Brutality and Corruption Discussion Thread

yeah, that's what's so pernicious. he's like, "i dunno, just sayin what i'm hearin'..." but the actual implications of his remarks (which he will never spell out) are so revoltingly reactionary and anti-democratic.

I have to say that he's totally right about it being really hard to just do whatever you want to do however you want to do it when a bunch of killjoys are trying to, like, hold you accountable for your actions or whatever.

apparently Obama called him into the WH for an *unscheduled* meeting after these 2 speeches

didn't can him tho

fwiw the cops in the lil vermont town near me (known for being wealthy-and-progressive) was going to get body cameras until the town gov't struck down the idea citing ~privacy concerns~

for citizens

it was the cops who had asked for them in the first place

vermont, man

well, yeah, those are legit concerns. it's complicated.

they just announced that all cops in this city will wear body cameras while on duty. citizens can request that they turn them off during encounters, but the ultimate decision is made at the cop's discretion.

i understand the call for body cameras, and maybe they are necessary, but they will raise all kinds of complex privacy issues, and we might end up regretting having advocated for them.

maybe they should be required to blur out the faces of civilians in the videos unless there is a prevailing reason why the person should be identified.

The main issue I have with body cameras is that it seems like most people are unwilling to believe the bald evidence video puts in front of them and grope for a context uncaptured by film that supports whatever narrative they want to believe anyway, so it seems like it will be a largely frustrating, expensive empty gesture that will do nothing but generate more ill will towards everyone.

The best alternative I can come up with is to just murder everyone and start over; when weighed against this, body cameras begin to seem like a much more reasonable choice.

idk maybe we should explore this murder option, could all work out

I figured you'd be on board

also fwiw Comey should never have been nominated in the first place, hope Obama's regretting his selection of yet another shitty Dubya appointee

In a US culture where involuntary contact with the police is assumed by many as probably your own damn fault, the potential for blackmail and abuse ("see, we had to talk to this wild out of control thug many times before the justified shooting -- here's video!") seems huge.

i'm sort of not understanding what the privacy issues might be

i mean assuming the cops aren't just allowed to upload whatever they want on youtube

police with body cameras entire a private building
someone unrelated to their reason for entry is there doing something they don't want others in their lives to know about
their presence is now part of the public record tied to a completely unrelated matter

I have zero concerns/issues with body camera usage in public spaces because it's a public space and one should have zero expectation of privacy in public

In more practical terms I think everyone should have zero expectations of privacy anyway since "privacy" as it's been implemented in this country usually only applies to white people but I've had that argument before

xp - can those public record tapes be obtained by unrelated third parties? journos etc.?

I don't think body camera video automatically = public record, it would have to be admitted into an evidence in a trial for that, and it would not be hard to remove irrelevant people/activity from the evidence (I would think)

xp

I think everyone should have zero expectations of privacy anyway

I agree w this tho

xxp if they're police property and usable as case evidence, i'm guessing probably, much like police reports

my parents found out about my first speeding ticket because of the police blotter lol small townz

I don't think body camera video automatically = public record, it would have to be admitted into an evidence in a trial for that, and it would not be hard to remove irrelevant people/activity from the evidence (I would think)

xp

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, November 3, 2015 4:39 PM (6 minutes ago)

right

lol yeah, I mean the fact that you've been arrested or given a citation is already a matter of public record; I'm not sure court-admissible video shot by police already participating in an action that is eligible for the public record would suddenly fall under privacy concerns

I mean, my understanding is the main reason shows like Cops have to redact people out is because they're not allowed to use that footage in a for-profit venture without compensating the people in it or getting them to sign a waiver granting permission for free usage of their visages; it's not because it is illegal to use the footage of them, otherwise even the redacted portions with people's faces blurred out wouldn't be usable as there are usually enough context clues left in for anyone familiar with the associated parties to figure out who they are.

eh just murder everyone already

I read this article last spring and it's kind of fascinating and covers a lot of the privacy concerns and how the Seattle PD is trying to deal with it. Basically someone requested every single dash cam video ever taken which you can do in Washington due to public disclosure laws:

the activist’s request encompassed over 360 terabytes of data: 1.6 million recordings stretching back six years. Each one would have to first be reviewed to cut out any images or audio of children, medical or mental health incidents, confidential informants, or victims or bystanders who did not want to be recorded.

So they've been working with the guy on methods for releasing the videos while redacting any faces / names / locations that might give away personal details. The resulting videos are crazy looking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGKa0fNs-4

holy fuck re that DeLeon story

LAPD really circling the wagons on that one, hiding behind the blue wall pretty effectively. for whatever reason there hasn't been a large(r) protest movement over it.

I don't think body camera video automatically = public record, it would have to be admitted into an evidence in a trial for that, and it would not be hard to remove irrelevant people/activity from the evidence (I would think)

It's REALLY hard to remove "irrelevant people/activity" from evidence. Forensic digital evidence specialists (video, audio, computer memory) spend a lot of time with this. And they're just working on "best effort" - i.e. if they fail, it's not like they're really liable because they forgot to pixelate all the frames right, or whatever. It hasn't been clearly decided in the courts or in legislation what the boundaries are for stuff like this. So consider body cameras another form of mass surveillance, specifically targeting those folks who happen to be standing around police officers.

I feel like the long game here actually starts with increasing the use of social workers in police departments with a parallel effort to improve rational gun control - not crap like controlling magazine size or caliber or firing frequency, but controlling how guns are sold and who to and being increasingly intrusive about licensing, i.e. requiring names of everybody in the household, auditing gun owners' own practices for securing their collection, etc. - because I think a smarter gun regulation paradigm is the only way we can enable a less militarized and less omnipresent police force, and as a corollary, enable a MORE omnipresent force of social workers who are trained to de-escalate situations and get people help who are amenable to help.

We also need to get disingenuous bigots to shut the fuck up with "moral hazard" talk but that's another post.

So consider body cameras another form of mass surveillance, specifically targeting those folks who happen to be standing around police officers.

this.

be careful what you wish for.

that's a really important point, i hadn't considered that. (this is what "privacy" in the legal sense actually means/should mean, not "privacy" like some guy's gonna be caught picking his nose in the background of a video that's admitted as evidence in court.) ideally the standard of probable cause would prevent the pendulum from swinging too far in that direction, but obviously it'll be possible to abuse

I just feel like the real root cause of so much of this horribleness is that we have made the job of "police officer" into something that ranges far above and beyond what people who want to be cops are capable of. We have made their job impossible because on the one hand, we let everybody and their dog own .50 cal weapons, and on the other hand, we ask them to deal with civil protests, restraining orders, the mentally ill, etc.

Cops are assholes. But they're supposed to be OUR assholes, to deal with less controllable, threatening assholes. When I see a fight break out near my home I want nothing more than to know that there is an NCAA Division III 2nd string linebacker ready to go and break that shit up and put the bad people in the tank for the night, my sidewalk bouncer, the guy so I don't have to be the guy.
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in asking that person to go to my daughter's school and deal with an unruly kid, or checking on the person sleeping outdoors by the Reeves Center who has been in the same position for five or seven hours of daylight.

I am completely furious at what passes for police work in my country, but I think the real problem is that we have given a complicated job to a bunch of jocks who signed up for something much less so.

good points

yup

From Harris County, Texas to Fox Lake, Ill., officers have died at the hands of those who they swore to protect.

The Fox Lake case is far from settled, the police are investigating it as such but there have also been reports and plenty of speculation that the officer committed suicide.

― ive reddit all your posts and I want a crowdfund (dan m), Wednesday, October 7, 2015 11:36 AM (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

welp, not only was it suicide, he was embezzling $ from the PD

http://chicagoist.com/2015/11/04/fox_lake_police_officer.php

that story is insane

Decent job by Tarantino in this interview:

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/quentin-tarantino-responds-to-controversy-559525443775

that story is insane

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, November 4, 2015 11:14 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and just keeps getting more so

An official says Lt. Joe Gliniewicz tried to arrange for a gang member "to put a hit" on a village administrator because he feared she would discover he had been embezzling money.

the way the story is being told it makes it sound like his backup plan was to kill himself, then he'd really get away with it for sure.

scott walker (along with a lot of other turds) used that incident as an example of the so-called "ferguson effect"

i wouldn't count the hours before they walk that back

^^ Radley Balko rounds them all up for you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/11/05/a-partial-list-of-pundits-politicians-and-media-outlets-who-used-joseph-gliniewiczs-death-to-push-the-war-on-cops-narrative/

(Don't read the comments.)

scott walker (along with a lot of other turds) used that incident as an example of the so-called "ferguson effect"

i wouldn't count the hours before they walk that back

― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, November 5, 2015 1:38 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is why the whole thing is so fascinating to me

A cop in a small town (Hummelstown, PA) was acquitted of shooting an unarmed man dead today. Fucking appalling.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/11/mearkle_verdict.html

xp

there are plenty of people on the son's FB page who are suggesting it was an "inside job" and that gliniewicz is some kind of patsy but then again people have trouble imagining others are amazingly capable of living two lives.

Fucked up:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fraternal-order-police-quentin-tarantino-837394

Boom Box 8 hours ago
+theULTIMATETetris Fuck Tarantino and his BlackLivesMatter and AntiPolice bullshit. I'm boycotting his movies
Reply · 5

Hennimore 7 hours ago
+Boom Box If you stopped using products, watching TV/movies and playing video games because of the personal opinion and views of the creators you would be making all your own stuff. Even then you'd still be using the product of an asshole.
Reply · 20

On the Daniel Holtzclaw trial: www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/11/hate_crime_if_daniel_holtzclaw_s_victims_were_white_everyone_would_know.html

the comments section in that hwood reporter article is a cesspool

http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/08/videos-show-police-beating-and-tasing-alabama-student-after-responding-to-noise-complaint/

http://gawker.com/what-we-are-getting-wrong-about-police-reform-1740865621

In spite of evidence on crime rates and along with union statements and several reports of police pullback in New York and Baltimore, this theory has credence. Over-policing and under-policing are part of the larger whole, a dynamic of inappropriate policing that includes lack of police oversight and lack of community empowerment, among other problems. This view encompasses many of the policing problems in communities of color and marginalized city regions like Walnut Hill in Milwaukee, Southeast Washington, D.C., or East New York: from slow response call times to killings of unarmed citizens. Police in black and brown areas are entirely uncoupled from the demands and oversight of the people they are supposed to serve, and with that uncoupling comes an obvious result: tyranny.

good article

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/11/15/black-man-shot-by-police-ignites-protests-in-minneapolis/