Bob Dylan: The Bootleg Series

to my knowledge he's never really strayed too far from the blonde on blonde arrangement of "visions" -- he's done it solo obviously, but never really radically re-imagined it.

Anyone else who bought the 18CD one having trouble with the digital download? Unbelievable, for 600 bucks!

Anyone else who bought the 18CD one having trouble with the digital download?

but sry to hear that

not much buzz around this record is there? have not been able to hear it all myself yet...

anyway, I guess it was suggested upthread that this is less a revelation (1-3, Tell Tale Signs, Another SP) more a documentation (whitmark, basement tapes) type bootleg

Ha, Niels, yes--I don't imagine there are any others. The thing I like best about the box is hearing each session complete, how he works. As TylerW said, I think, he's going along and then--boom--Maggie's Farm, one take. The whole thing is thrilling in that way

that does sound really cool

I'm sure it will circulate, if you know what i mean

less a revelation...more a documentation...the basement tapes: The Complete Basement Tapes were revelatory to me, even after hearing A Tree With Roots: more songs, incl. ones prev. heard only in fragments, and others complete unknowns (better sound doesn't hurt). Think I can wait for this one, though.

The 6-disc version, that is; doubt I could ever afford the 18 (which might be required for revelation).

i've made it through 9 discs so far, and it is a very fun listen. i'll probably go back through it one more time and cherrypick the stuff I actually want to listen to over and over. but it is just cool to be a fly on the wall, hearing the whole thing unfold.

I found the 6-disc edition to be endlessly fascinating, and the LARS session confirmed what I've long thought to be true: there is no more difficult or challenging situation for a musician than playing with Bob Dylan. You have to consider the implications of every word in every line; then, you have to make it swing. Now do all of that without coming off as self-conscious and/or getting in the way.

And on an optimistic note, the website says "these will be the only copies of the collector's edition ever manufactured" -- that still leaves open the possibility for a stripped-down release of all the material (maybe just the discs without the vinyl or the books, maybe a download-only of the music).

"LARS session"?

Like A Rolling Stone

Lars Ulrich played drums on LARS, one of the many revelations of the box set

there is no more difficult or challenging situation for a musician than playing with Bob Dylan.
yeah i think this is otm -- he really is a *weird* musician. odd timing, odd phrasing, definitely following his own sense of the song, rather than really grooving w/ the band. so the backing musicians had to figure out how keep up. you can hear it happening, which is pretty neat.

And Bob isn't going to communicate to session pros in a language they'll necessarily understand easily. One one of the Blonde on Blonde songs (forget which one), the keyboardist is leading the band through the chords, many of which are suspended and/or augmented. At the end of the conversation Bob says something like, "Yeah. Um...suspended. Heh." He probably didn't know the full names of the chords he wrote the song with.

yeah! and in one of those hotel tapes w/ robertson he can't even really tell robertson what chords he's playing (assuming one of them is capo'd or something). "you'll figure it out."

And he's right, of course---listening to The Complete BT and sampler re Cutting Edge, I sometimes thought of Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band, but Dylan's process seems much faster/less of an ordeal (though judging by interviews with Robertson, rehearsals for '66 tour might have been the crucial initiation/torture for all concerned; everything that followed was relatively easier, sounds like)

I bought the complete Basement Tapes but decided to restrict myself to the 2 disc version of this. I don't have the need / energy / time for more.

Was really tempted though.

And Bob isn't going to communicate to session pros in a language they'll necessarily understand easily. One one of the Blonde on Blonde songs (forget which one), the keyboardist is leading the band through the chords, many of which are suspended and/or augmented. At the end of the conversation Bob says something like, "Yeah. Um...suspended. Heh." He probably didn't know the full names of the chords he wrote the song with.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, November 16, 2015 10:07 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to be fair, i bet those nashville and new york session guys have to deal with this stuff all the time. lots of great singers and songwriters are musically untrained. in fact one of the most important job skills of session musicians is essentially "translating" musical ideas in precisely this way.

like for example elvis costello didn't teach himself to read or write music until the 1990s, if i'm not mistaken. before that, if he wanted a horn or string chart, he'd have to say something like, "there's a little howlin' wolf lick here, then the strings should go 'da da da dee da.'"

to be fair, i bet those nashville and new york session guys have to deal with this stuff all the time. lots of great singers and songwriters are musically untrained.

That's true, and many have an intermediary, a "musical director" to translate (Dylan's currently is his bassist, Tony Garnier). Prior to Blonde on Blonde, Dylan was mostly working with rockers who likely had little more technical knowledge than he did, so he could say, "Can you go eeehnnnhh?" and they'd be like, ok, sure.

i think al kooper had developed into that "musical director" role by the end of the blonde on blonde sessions ... but so much of it seems like happenstance.
Best quote I've come across so far about the Hwy 61 sessions -- from Michael Bloomfield:
"I was there man, I’m telling you it was a result of chuckle-fucking, of people stepping on each other’s dicks until it came out right."

hahaha

I love how, something like four takes after what would become the master, Dylan angrily stops a take of LARS saying, "Why can't we play it right, man?!"

yeah, pretty crazy. you can almost imagine some alternate universe where he stopped at three takes of LARS and was like, "screw this, I don't like this song anymore."

people stepping on each other’s dicks

ow

people stepping on each other’s dicks
crumble into one another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0N4twV28Mw

hahaha oh man that Bloomfield quote

"screw this, I don't like this song anymore." Seems to happen a lot, judging by the number of regrettably-to-insanely unreleased tracks all along the winding watchtower. And/or maybe he just loses the original thread too quickly. (Also, saw at least one interview where he said he's sometimes looked at even some of his well-known lyrics and thought "wtf?")

speed/heroin/? is a helluva drug

did he ever have a heroin problem?

think he is rumored to have dabbled w/ it around the 65-66 period, but i don't know whether he was deeply into it...

I thought that was all driven by Professor Garbagedigger or whatever his name is

Dylan doesn't seem like the junkie type to me (speed makes way more sense), apart from the Nico connection I don't see much basis for it

After a concert in March 1966, on board a private plane in Lincoln, Nebraska, bound for Denver, the singer told critic Robert Shelton: "I kicked a heroin habit in New York City. I got very, very strung out for a while, I mean really, very strung out. And I kicked the habit. I had about a $25-a-day habit and I kicked it."

of course, you generally have to take everything dylan says around this time (or any time!) w/ a grain of salt...

and yeah weberman was convinced that dylan was a functioning addict through 1970 or later, and every song had coded references to it.

oh yeah I forgot to mention that I am AJ Weberman

hey guys

(there's also that back of a limo clip with Lennon where they'd supposedly taken heroin)

haha, they'd definitely taken something. if there's one clip that makes rock stars look uncool taking drugs it's that one.

That Lennon one, I think it's Dylan who had taken some opiate, and Lennon had done something else (speed?) and was totally nervous to hang with Dylan, who the whole time looks like he's going to barf.

Playing with Dylan sounds exhausting, but maybe no more than other temperamental artist. (My fave story came from a friend whose own friend jammed with James Brown one session. This friend was playing organ and was really getting into the groove, so moved up to the second keyboard level. James Brown immediately stops the session. "Hold it, hold!" it shouts, turning to the guy. "You've got no *business* on the second level!!" Then they started the track again.) Anyway, Dylan's delivery and cadences are weird, but seem to be something any good musician could navigate - mostly just bluesy stuff. Now, doing something he likes, or getting that take before he gets bored, that's another matter. I can imagine an unconventional dude like Dylan - you're a great player, you do everything right, then he just stops you and goes "no, no, that doesn't FEEL right!"

Artists, man.

Anyway, Dylan's delivery and cadences are weird, but seem to be something any good musician could navigate - mostly just bluesy stuff.

no way man. Listen to "Highway 6" and try to imagine playing bass on that. Simple 1-4-5 progression, right? But where those 1s, 4s, and 5s happen makes ZERO sense unless you are following every word Bob sings. And even then there is a pretty good chance you'll fuck up. The alternate takes on this new box really drive this point home, imo. Dude makes John Lee Hooker look like Tony Rice.

Still, greatest music ever, obvs

Uh, I mean "Highway 61", obviously

And even then there is a pretty good chance you'll fuck up.

Man, there are, afaict, tons of fundamental fuck-ups all over Dylan's stuff, right? Like out of tune guitars and wrong bass notes. It's not because the stuff is hard to play, imo, it's because Dylan makes it hard to play. By not letting the musicians hear the song first, by changing styles/tempos/keys/times, irregular measures, etc. Doesn't hurt anything, though. It all adds what they call "character."

Yeah, I mean, a lot of these songs filtered through Peter Paul & Mary, or even the Byrds and The Band and Baez and hundreds of others, reveal their structural simplicity, it's true. Dylan himself is the x factor. But I agree about the "character," and I think it's one of the many things that makes listening to Dylan, on teh whole, more interesting than the others I named.

And yes, there are clunkers everywhere on those records! But this happened more often back then, I guess. I'm sure there are many reasons (not least of which: no digital editing; tape degrades if you erase over it too much, so you had to 'commit' to things, etc). Have you listened recently to the tambourine on the Stones' "Time Is On My Side?" If not, check it out.

The early version of "Just like a woman" is instructive..

The backing is generic bobdylanband style with the lyrics/tune crammed around it. The finished version is a perfect arrangement. Clearly a lot of work had to be done between the two but how did they get there from here? (I don't have anything but the 2cd version)

"She's your lover now" is ooh kay, but no great loss as it stood (to me) but then again if similar magic had been applied to it, it could have been amazing too.

Is there any other 'archive' project where the subject is treated as "gone" like they died and can't answer those begged questions?

Even has his unused words set to new music by those 'respected' performers of the Costello/Bragg farm..

The Complete Basement Tapes were revelatory to me, even after hearing A Tree With Roots

I guess I need to give that a listen! bought the vinyl edition which is only 38 songs - great stuff but no shockers iirc

re dylan being tricky to play with, I always think of this when I see him live, it's like whenever a song starts you can see the band trying to guess what song they're playing and how - remember one time he started "All Along the Watchtower" on keyboard and the band didn't catch up, after 10 seconds he grabbed the guitar, showed a few chords, the band fell in and he went back to keyboard

reminds me of this story (also linked on the dylan poll I think) from NY recording session for BotT

“Let’s do Tangled up in Blue, in G.”

He hit his guitar, but instead of a G chord, it was an A. He was playing in a different key from the one he had called off. And the lyrics were, “IfBob Dylan in the Studio you see her, say hello,” another song. If any of the musicians, trying to keep up with the unexpected switch, missed a chord, he’d wave his hand, signaling them to drop out.

The feeling in the studio was tense. This was Dylan. No one would tell him he couldn’t do this, but this was wrong. You are at least supposed to tell the musicians the key and the song.

Everyone there had been incredibly excited to be playing with this guy, making a record with him. You could tell that even these jaded studio cats were jazzed. It was all anticipation to that point, but it was becoming apparent to each musician, as they were summarily dismissed, that this was not likely to happen.

The feeling just got worse. We all stole looks at each other, not understanding what was going on, not knowing what to do, hardly believing it. He did this again, and again, calling off one song and starting another, oblivious.

Musicians dropped liked swatted bugs, writhing on the ground, waiting to die. Studio musicians are tough; they’re hired to do whatever it takes. When we would record with guys like Steely Dan, you might work on a basic track for 12 hours, searching for an impossible perfection, and you’d never say no, or show the slightest bit of attitude.

But that was the game. This hurt. You could see it in the musician’s eyes, as they sat silently behind their instruments, forced not to play by the mercurial whim of the guy painting his masterpiece with finger-paints.

After a few disastrous takes, it ended up just Dylan and the bass player, Tony Brown. Tony sat inches from Dylan, watching his hands, trying to follow the chord changes as Bob made them, never knowing what chord or song was to come in the next moment. Dylan was on his own wavelength, and you either were on it or you didn’t exist.

We cut the entire album in one day like that.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110819085458/http://shrinky.net/2011/music/bob-dylan/bob-dylans-blood-on-the-tracks-the-untold-story