Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

They exclude me from their clique AND they are decadent westerners who reject the true path etc.

Agreed. Would be very unusual though. Keep expecting to find out the argument that supposedly kicked it off was about politics/religion.

i think that's how a lot of political paranoia begins, or rather isn't that a defining feature of paranoia -- the idea that behind all these personal slights (real or simply perceived) is some larger conspiracy that extends up and out?

xposts

there was a detail i'd read early on that said there was an argument that led to dude storming out and coming back armed up, but everything new i'm reading--escape SUV rented 3 days in advance, 12 homemade pipe bombs left sitting in the house, all their hard drives & cell phones & motherboards methodically destroyed before cops showed up--is really confusing me. why go to such lengths to hide your motivations?

i always sort of assumed that the "radicalization" of the tsarnaevs and (potentially) this guy had less to do with a particular org or a particular plan and was instead almost like an "activation." like, dudes travel abroad, and get inspired to do a lil terrorism of their own --- their own design, their plan, etc.

ISIS doesn't need to export trained soldiers, or help cells acquire materiel --- they just need to convince a couple ppl to ~consider~ making a trip to walmart or wherever and load up on guns'n'ammo. maybe they'll go through with it, maybe they won't.

decades of homegrown terrorism and the best gun markets in the world provides an almost by the numbers approach

many xps

"in some ways i can imagine someone taking a personal grievance and 'ennobling' (in a sick sense obv) an act of personal vengeance by turning it into an act of political violence."

I can totally believe that being one person's motivation. But getting your wife to go along esp. when you have a six month old child?!?!? It starts to get harder to imagine that.

ISIS doesn't need to export trained soldiers, or help cells acquire materiel --- they just need to convince a couple ppl to ~consider~ making a trip to walmart or wherever and load up on guns'n'ammo. maybe they'll go through with it, maybe they won't.

decades of homegrown terrorism and the best gun markets in the world provides an almost by the numbers approach

Yes and no. It's still going to be far more effective to have coordinated attacks by trained individuals loyal to an organization than to rely on randos who may or may not do shit. Paris had a lot more impact on people and policy than something like this will.

it seems like maybe they thought they'd get away with it? i was surprised when it turned into a manhunt. i mean on some level they must've known that you can't do this kind of thing in the US and get away.

the detail that's stuck with me was them dropping off their six month old in the morning and saying something about a dentist appointment, and then he went to the party alone, then left.

i think that's the timeline there. if i'm remembering it right, that means they were going to do this and it wasn't spur of the moment or initiated by some argument at the party.

I mean 100-200 deaths caused by a resourced organization makes you think "What if they have sleeper cells in other world cities? Maybe they're planning an attack near me? How powerful are they?" It's scarier (to me at least) than an unhinged guy reading stuff on the internet and shooting up his office.

(On Tuesday, in fact, a measure that would have prevented people on the terrorism watch list from buying guns was defeated in the House of Representatives.)

this country is so sick why would you not want to prevent people on the terrorism watch list from buying guns???

because what if dear leader obama finally unveils his plan to capture the united states and become a dictator and he declares all good conservative americans to be "terrorists" and then they can't go buy...another gun to add to their collection. hm. yeah it doesn't add up, even on the crazy conspiracy side of things

also you'd think if you were the POTUS and were going to stage an anti-democratic coup you'd probably have more powerful levers at your disposal than changing gun access laws for terrorists

that's what he WANTS you to think

Fwiw mordy 100% of the posts about hoping this guy wasn't a Muslim or Arab in my Facebook feed were Muslims. Some of them could be characterized as leftists, but most couldn't. Tbh it bothers me too, but I can't pretend I don't feel a version of it myself. I'm not proud of it. All of that is, of course, purely anecdotal, but so is everything you're saying.

not for me --- it's far scarier to me that someone "radical" enough (be it via Islam, Christianity, or w/e else) could just pop over to gander mountain and get what they need to breeze into any public place anywhere and shoot the place up

the feds actually seem p good at keeping tabs on cells, simply because any given number of ppl needs to communicate and plan shit. loners who may or may not act out something terrible without the need for handling are a lot tougher to anticipate (as we have seen many many times)

couple xps there

fwiw (not much) here is Paul Ryan on why people on the terrorism watch list should still be able to purchase weapons: “government officials put people on such lists without any due legal process and so denying those listed the right to bear arms would violate their rights.”

there's actually some truth in that, but ryan and his cronies don't apply that truth to a million other things that don't have to do with guns. like, say, armed drones.

It bothers me, to be clear, because it feels gross to divert attention from the murder of the victims to handwringing about what might happen to you. Some of these FB people linked to specific stories about violence against Muslims post-Paris (a cabbie was killed, I gather?) but I didn't really investigate those alleged incidents. Some people linked to a tabloidy looking news headline about MUSLIM KILLERS (ny post, maybe?)

One of them (she wears hijab) just posted thanks to suburban white ladies for smiling really big at her as she went about her business today. I feel complex things about this phenomenon.

In a perverse way I actually see big problems with the idea of not allowing gun purchases
by people on a vague "watch list." I mean I support repealing the second amendment or severely curtailing it, but as long as our high court says it's a right I'm not psyched about denying rights based on semi-arbitrary, overbroad suspicion lists.

But ... guns being a right. Just think about how fucking absurd that seems. "I have the right to own an item who's express purpose is to kill other things".

the country was founded on killing other things daily

and a fifth of the populace is still living there

xxpost ok sure, but as long as the Supreme Court interprets the 2nd Amendment as it currently does there seems little legal rationale for denying that right to a minority report list of mostly-Muslims the FBI generated

also there do seem to be non-legal ways to get guns.

like if there is a plot brewing im not sure registering for firearm licenses is a consideration.

A panoply of voices, with a minimum of delusional claptrap: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/03/us/mass-shootings-fear-voices.html

TBH this guy probably has the right attitude:

Kieran, 33, from Quincy, Mass., said he was more worried about car accidents and hard living than he was about gun violence. He said it was “irrational” to worry too much about mass shootings and terrorist attacks.
He said he had never been the victim of any kind of assault in his life.
“I am aware of the possibility but recognize it as remote enough that any thoughts or preparation for such an attack would be irrational and distract me from real threats to my immediate existence, like traffic accidents (which I HAVE experienced) or my own risky behaviors like drinking too much (quit three years ago), smoking (quit eight years ago), or eating unhealthy (been vegetarian for four months now),” he wrote.
“I try to keep my fears and anxieties in check and make sure I focus on actively improving my life instead of worrying about unseen threats that I can’t control,” he continued. “I see this approach to life as me doing my part to defeat terror – which is an emotion, not an organization.”

YES A+ finally someone w brains

That's a nice illustration of how rational people can quickly turn into narcissistic navel-gazers. I wonder how often that dude worries about anybody besides himself.

ain't nobody done assaulted me before. I'm too likable. You know I can't help but pontificate how blessed I am, to have the gifts I have. I chalk it up to my healthy way of living - I'd be happy to share my gifts with you all, if you'll bend an ear.

My ethos is to only control things I can directly influence as an individual! Political action is a waste of precious energy!

yes if only they had the courage and selflessness to post on a thread called "Another fucking spree shooting. Great."

Bernie madoff

I just read that paragraph and insert bro at the end of every sentence.

i do think that of all the many things to worry about, being shot in a mass shooting is probably not the most rational thing to be spending every moment in fear of. that doesn't mean we shouldn't wish for saner gun laws.

...bro.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opinion/how-many-mass-shootings-are-there-really.html?_r=0

Adam Bruneauif you want to have an inane and pointless discussions car accidents I suggest you start a thread about car accidents. Otherwise kindly shut the fuck up you blowhard.

lol that actually more belonged in the other thread, oh well

no harm done. cheers, mate.

let's see how far you get wishing the second amendment gets repealed. good luck.

so only politicians with the ability to draft and bring legislation to the House floor should be permitted in this thread?

I actually made a pretty strong argument in the other thread for not focusing on repealing the second amendment.

Well maybe a better way to think about it is cost/benefit. The political process for amending the constitution is SO difficult in today's political climate to begin with, and until a pretty recent Supreme Court case, the Second Amendment wasn't the main barrier to effective gun control anyway. So I think it's REALLY not worth the kind of expenditure and effort it would take to try to repeal the second amendment, in part because even if we win it doesn't actually mean we get effective gun control!

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, October 2, 2015 8:53 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Heller v. DC was only 7 years ago. Our gun problem is much older.

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, October 2, 2015 8:55 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And meanwhile, yes, I literally think it's a better strategy to "sit around waiting" for a majority liberal court, which could easily be within 5-10 years, then to go through the circus of trying to amend the constitution. And if that court does materialize, you don't actually have to then "wait around" for the right case to come along. All that has to happen is a state or municipality passes a law that appears to violate Heller, and some chump takes the bait and challenges it in court.

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, October 2, 2015 8:57 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thing is, i agree with you.

i wonder if focusing on how disgraceful and embarrassing our gun deaths are will do anything to move right wingers, who tend to be nationalists. like, as nationalists, aren't they ashamed we have a massacre per day?

i know jingoism is irrational but i don't understand how someone can look at these numbers clearly and compare them to other countries and decide that the US has the right idea on gun laws.

Dear America: Here’s Your Gun Solution
Here’s some common sense for you. I want gun ownership to be as boring and annoying as car ownership. I want you to go to some Department of Weapons and sit for hours. I want folks who own guns to prove their skill, their mental and physical health, and to be licensed and reviewed over the years just as happens with our driver’s licenses. You earn the right to own and drive a vehicle; earn the right to own and use a gun.
Quibble with me over semantics if you want to; what is a “right” vs. what is a “privilege.” I’ll be busy with my friends and colleagues trying to prevent more unnecessary deaths.
Gun ownership isn’t some inalienable right granted by God. Remember, the Constitution was written by men coming out of a long and bloody war near the end of the 18th century. It was written for their time.
It also included the “right” to own a human being.
Things change.
Folks evolve.
I want a voluntary federal buyback program for firearms, with hunting weapons and vintage/historic weapons exempt. I want the sale of weapons to be even more tightly controlled than the sale of Xanax and other controlled substances. I want advertising for firearms to be as regulated as DTC (direct to consumer) advertising for pharmaceuticals (“May cause shortness of breath, long-lasting boners, etc.”) We can do all of this. It’ll create jobs, believe it or not: regulators, educators, enforcers.
It will not end murder. It won’t end rape or robbery either. It WILL make it harder to commit those crimes. There will be a black market for guns as there is for any coveted item in a capitalist society. (And I’m not anti-capitalism, btw. I’m a big fan! Sorry, hippies. I do love you guys, by the way, you’re very nice people with good instincts.)
Continuing education credits for gun owners should be required, just as they are with medical professionals. When you have a greater ability to take a human life you have a greater responsibility to prove your fitness to wield the tools that may create that end.
And that’s how the fuck you well-regulate a goddamn American militia.

https://human.parts/dear-america-here-s-your-gun-solution-3f22db6e0fbf#.ewxnmz48j

xp to treeship- everyone knows the problem isn't guns it's secular humanism