ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (5028 of them)

I think I've said this elsewhere, but post-1970s Silverberg seems like the ultimate professional writer. Thorough, prolific, turns his hand to anything, all done with a certain minimal elegance, and absolutely without passion or any real spark.

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 10 December 2015 04:25 (eight years ago) link

It has been said many times before, by you and by others, but it bears repeating, especially on this newest version of the thread.

Let me take this opportunity to recommend a latter day work by another Robert, Robert Sheckley's Soma Blues. Really great descriptions and atmosphere regarding Ibiza and the demimonde thereof, you can almost see Nico and Le Kid riding bicycles in the background.

Thank you very much, you've got a Lucky Wilbury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 10 December 2015 11:11 (eight years ago) link

L Sprague De Camp omnibus has Lest Darkness Fall, Rogue Queen and Tritonian Ring.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 10 December 2015 11:38 (eight years ago) link

Think Silverbob buried his New Wave bitterness and holed up in Lord Valentine's Castle, whereas Malzberg never got over it.

yes, this seems to be the case. Malzberg was v committed to sf as "serious" fiction, explicitly calling out people like Philip Roth as his models etc. and seems to look back on the failures of the writers and the industry to encourage and meet these high lit standards with disappointment and regret (although there is also some pride in some of its successes too). Silverberg looks back on a lot of it as foolish, excessive, sloppy, indulgent - like a necessary but awkward and occasionally dazzling period of growing pains for the genre and the industry. He readily acknowledges that many later blockbuster "masterpieces" like KSR's Mars trilogy or Neuromancer or Wolfe's Book of the New Sun would never have been written much less published without the New Wave paving the way, but he has a paternalistic nostalgia for the era and that's about it.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 16:47 (eight years ago) link

it's interesting that Silverbob and Malzberg are apparently such tight bros - their sensibilities seem p different to me, although obviously there's a lot of shared history there.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 16:47 (eight years ago) link

"Also surprised to see him identify as a conservative/libertarian in the foreward"

don't read The Masks Of Time...

scott seward, Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:04 (eight years ago) link

that's actually one of the few I haven't gotten around to!

Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:09 (eight years ago) link

i guess you could look at it as a swingin' 60's answer novel to stranger in a strange land - maybe he was hoping the producers of the In Like Flint movies would option it - and if you can get past the frightening levels of sexism you get to the reactionary worldview that has not improved with age. although, who knows, the way we are going, maybe its a more accurate vision of the future than i want to admit.

scott seward, Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:25 (eight years ago) link

sexism/mysogyny v prevalent in both Silverbob and Malzberg's works (altho I think in the latter's ouevre it's more openly acknowledged and intentionally deployed)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link

Fairly sure Malzberg got into trouble in recent years over sexist remarks in an interview.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:56 (eight years ago) link

yeah we covered that

I was talkin about their actual fiction

Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:58 (eight years ago) link

when Malzberg's male narrators lash out at their female counterparts, often in cruel, vindictive ways, it's not like this is portrayed positively - more often than not it's depicted as being rooted in the narrator's own neurosis, inadequacies, failures, or self-loathing. There's sexism and misogyny there, but it's not unexamined or portrayed positively as some harmless fun (a la Heinlein or countless other examples of the time)

Malzberg's aging opinions about gender relations are something else imo

Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 18:01 (eight years ago) link

It's a guilty pleasure but these days I regularly check file770.com to see the latest sff community clusterfucks and which writers are being bigots.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 10 December 2015 18:18 (eight years ago) link

https://www.blackgate.com/2015/12/10/david-w-wixon-on-editing-the-complete-short-fiction-of-clifford-d-simak/

More info about the Simak series.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 11 December 2015 15:41 (eight years ago) link

Thx. Volume 3 and Way Station ebooks on discount right now

Thank you very much, you've got a Lucky Wilbury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 12 December 2015 02:06 (eight years ago) link

Anybody read Rhys Hughes? For a niche author he's incredibly prolific. His recent book had a male and female version that have slightly different contents.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 22:17 (eight years ago) link

lol is that some homage to the Dictionary of the Khazars

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 22:17 (eight years ago) link

It is. Here's Rhys writing about The Million Word Storybook

The longest single author short-story collection in publishing history is now available as an ebook!

In fact it is available as two ebooks, because it comes in two different editions, male and female, that differ in 10% of their contents. This is a trick that I picked up from Milorad Pavić, whose Dictionary of the Khazars also comes in male and female editions.

People keep asking me how I selected the variant stories for the two editions. The fact of the matter is that there is no rhyme or reason to the selection. I am not trying to make a point about differing male and female tastes in fiction. Quite the contrary! The differences are surely there but also insignificant.

As incredible as it sounds, there may actually be a print version next year. A publisher who has already issued a couple of my books is interested in bringing out a strictly limited multi-volume edition. It remains to be seen how practical this venture will turn out to be...

In the meantime here is the collection for the Kindle. THE MILLION WORD STORYBOOK features exactly 365 stories, one every day for an entire year. If you follow the link and click on 'Look Inside' you can read a sample for free. The book is so long that the sample, which is a certain percentage of the digital book, already contains 54 stories.

This collection contains approximately one third of my total fiction output over the past 25 years. The stories are presented in chronological order of their composition. The earliest dates from 1990 and the latest dates from this year 2015 and in fact is one of my most recently completed tales. As I plan to write 1000 stories in my working life, this collection will contain one quarter of my entire output ever!

I believe that this is a major literary event. Well, at the very least, it is a major personal event for myself and for the writer that I am and have been all my life...

"Rhys Hughes seems almost the sum of our planet's literature... As well as being drunk on language and wild imagery, he is also sober on the essentials of thought. He toys with convention. He makes the metaphysical political, the personal incredible and the comic hints at subtle pain. Few living fictioneers approach this chef's sardonic confections..." - MICHAEL MOORCOCK

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 22:31 (eight years ago) link

This is a trick that I picked up from Milorad Pavić, whose Dictionary of the Khazars also comes in male and female editions.

People keep asking me how I selected the variant stories for the two editions. The fact of the matter is that there is no rhyme or reason to the selection. I am not trying to make a point about differing male and female tastes in fiction. Quite the contrary! The differences are surely there but also insignificant.

this sounds... really stupid? The difference(s) in the male and female editions of the Pavic novel are *super* significant to the text and inform how the book(s) is/are read. Taking the same tactic but then making the differences insignificant, what is the point of that?

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 22:36 (eight years ago) link

Everyone's very opinionated today.

ledge, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 22:42 (eight years ago) link

I really don't get the point either but I'd guess it's for some reason that amuses him.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 22:56 (eight years ago) link

I quite like this blurb of another Rhys Hughes book. An affectionate parody of classic horror using Ramsey Campbell, Lovecraft and MR James titles.

The Grin of the Doll Who Ate his Mother's Face in the Dark and Other Dreadful Tales

Have you ever watched a ram in the sea? Have you ever witnessed a ewe in a pond? Pretty damn impressive, aren't they? But they are nothing compared to the dark woolliness of a lamb in a lake, swimming like a champion in pursuit of a canoe. Well, Lamblake Heinz is the ultimate souped-up lamb in a lake! And he's back!

For the past fifty years, the legendary Lamblake Heinz has been astounding the world with his amazing tales of incredible horror! Readers have exploded when reading his work or turned into literal gibbons! And now, at long last, all his finest short-stories are available in a single volume! Dare you penetrate the portals of his darkness and explore the inner core of his fiendish imagination? Or are you too much of a timid scaredy cat?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 23:31 (eight years ago) link

Not sure I could read 1,000,000 words of that

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Wednesday, 16 December 2015 00:13 (eight years ago) link

That's just a blurb for a parody book though.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 16 December 2015 00:19 (eight years ago) link

Fair point!

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Wednesday, 16 December 2015 23:53 (eight years ago) link

finally got round to reading the wild shore, which i enjoyed a great deal. was saddened to learn the other 2 californias are not directly related, and from the summaries i read at least neither sounds anything like as appealing. should i read either or both or am i ok to pass?

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 17 December 2015 14:52 (eight years ago) link

maybe you guys can help me. anyone know where i can find jg ballard's essay "which way to inner space?" is it anthologized anywhere? amazon and google are failing me.

ryan, Thursday, 17 December 2015 15:07 (eight years ago) link

Or origin of this quote

I define Inner Space as an imaginary realm in which on the one hand the outer world of reality, and on the other the inner world of the mind meet and merge.

which pops up in a lot of places, in particular:
http://www.ballardian.com/confronting-ourselves-ballard-and-circular-time

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 17 December 2015 15:20 (eight years ago) link

Ah, there is a link to the full interview to another page on the same site in which he said that last, but it is broken.

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 17 December 2015 15:23 (eight years ago) link

yeah damnit. it's apparently just a few pages but it came up in some research and i wanted to read it in full. might have to visit an actual library.

ryan, Thursday, 17 December 2015 15:26 (eight years ago) link

Whoever owns the copyright on that article seems to want you to do so. B-b-but don't you still have your academic credentials?

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 17 December 2015 15:32 (eight years ago) link

duh quote.

dow, Thursday, 17 December 2015 20:56 (eight years ago) link

No more interviews, back to your typewriter JG.

dow, Thursday, 17 December 2015 20:57 (eight years ago) link

Btw, saw some album on Spotify the other day for which most of the song titles came from James Tiptree, Jr. stories.

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 December 2015 03:41 (eight years ago) link

Love is the Plan, the Plan is Death

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 December 2015 04:40 (eight years ago) link

The James Blackshaw album--it's pretty good. He did another, Fantômas: Le Faux Magistrat, inspired by a different sort of genre fiction (well, its filmed version, anyway).

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Friday, 18 December 2015 05:15 (eight years ago) link

Blackshaw's always worth hearing, although that music prob works best when (as intitially intended) it's witnessed as live soundtrack for the silent film--but enough about sound and vision, how's the book?? Great character, apparently.

dow, Friday, 18 December 2015 05:54 (eight years ago) link

initially? Yeah that looks righter

dow, Friday, 18 December 2015 05:55 (eight years ago) link

Fantomas, you mean? It's fun pulp shenanigans.

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Friday, 18 December 2015 07:02 (eight years ago) link

reading viriconium; not sure where i stand yet. first one was pretty straightforward, second one was a dense fever dream that i think the book of the new sun did better?

anyway, i'll keep reading. one can imagine that china mieville owns a very beat-up copy

mookieproof, Friday, 18 December 2015 15:13 (eight years ago) link

https://www.blackgate.com/2015/12/17/vintage-treasures-the-good-stuff-by-gardner-dozois/#more-121602

Sounds like a pretty good sampler of adventure SF

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 18 December 2015 15:42 (eight years ago) link

i've hyped the Good New Stuff multiple times on the SF threads. i loved it. such a good collection. it inspired me to read more!

scott seward, Friday, 18 December 2015 15:54 (eight years ago) link

watched Interstellar last night on Hulu. it wasn't great, but i made it through all 8 hours. John W. Campbell would have been proud.

scott seward, Saturday, 26 December 2015 16:39 (eight years ago) link

i don't think i knew that matt damon was stranded in space two years in a row. is hollywood trying to tell him something?

scott seward, Saturday, 26 December 2015 16:40 (eight years ago) link

Just learned that Boris Vian translated Van Vogt.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 17:50 (eight years ago) link

Really?

Instant Karmagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 30 December 2015 17:58 (eight years ago) link

Yes, you can find numerous listings of it, some say Vian improved the prose. Apparently Van Vogt and Lovecraft were popular with French surrealists.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 18:21 (eight years ago) link

Loads of good stuff on wikipedia

Critical opinion about the quality of van Vogt's work has been sharply divided.

One early and articulate critic was then-23-year-old Damon Knight. In a 1945[12] chapter-long essay reprinted in In Search of Wonder,[10] entitled "Cosmic Jerrybuilder: A. E. van Vogt", Knight famously remarked that van Vogt "is no giant; he is a pygmy who has learned to operate an overgrown typewriter". Knight described The World of Null-A as "one of the worst allegedly adult science fiction stories ever published". About van Vogt's writing, Knight said:

In general van Vogt seems to me to fail consistently as a writer in these elementary ways: 1. His plots do not bear examination. 2. His choice of words and his sentence-structure are fumbling and insensitive. 3. He is unable either to visualize a scene or to make a character seem real.

About Empire of the Atom Knight wrote:

If you can only throw your reasoning powers out of gear—something many van Vogt fans find easy to do—you'll enjoy this one.

Knight also expressed misgivings about van Vogt's politics, noting that his stories almost invariably present absolute monarchy in a favorable light. But in 1974, he went partly back on his criticism after finding out about Vogt's working methods about writing down his dreams:[13]

This explains a good deal about the stories, and suggests that it is really useless to attack them by conventional standards. If the stories have a dream consistency which affects readers powerfully, it is probably irrelevant that they lack ordinary consistency.

On the other hand, when science fiction author Philip K. Dick was asked [14] which science fiction writers had influenced his work the most, he replied:

I started reading sf when I was about twelve and I read all I could, so any author who was writing about that time, I read. But there's no doubt who got me off originally and that was A.E. van Vogt. There was in van Vogt's writing a mysterious quality, and this was especially true in The World of Null A. All the parts of that book did not add up; all the ingredients did not make a coherency. Now some people are put off by that. They think that's sloppy and wrong, but the thing that fascinated me so much was that this resembled reality more than anybody else's writing inside or outside science fiction.

Dick also defended van Vogt against Damon Knight’s criticisms:

Damon feels that it's bad artistry when you build those funky universes where people fall through the floor. It's like he's viewing a story the way a building inspector would when he's building your house. But reality really is a mess, and yet it's exciting. The basic thing is, how frightened are you of chaos? And how happy are you with order? Van Vogt influenced me so much because he made me appreciate a mysterious chaotic quality in the universe which is not to be feared.

In a review of Transfinite: The Essential A.E. van Vogt, science fiction writer Paul Di Filippo said:

Van Vogt knew precisely what he was doing in all areas of his fiction writing. There's hardly a wasted word in his stories... His plots are marvels of interlocking pieces, often ending in real surprises and shocks, genuine paradigm shifts, which are among the hardest conceptions to depict. And the intellectual material of his fictions, the conceits and tossed-off observations on culture and human and alien behavior, reflect a probing mind...Each tale contains a new angle, a unique slant, that makes it stand out.[15]

In The John W. Campbell Letters, Campbell says, "The son-of-a-gun gets hold of you in the first paragraph, ties a knot around you, and keeps it tied in every paragraph thereafter—including the ultimate last one".[9][16]

Harlan Ellison (who began reading van Vogt as a teenager)[17] wrote, "Van was the first writer to shine light on the restricted ways in which I had been taught to view the universe and the human condition".[9]

Writing in 1984 David Hartwell said:[18]

No one has taken van Vogt seriously as a writer for a long time. Yet he has been read and still is. What no one seems to have noticed is that van Vogt, more than any other single SF writer, is the conduit through which the energy of Gernsbackian, primitive wonder stories have been transmitted through the Campbellian age, when earlier styles of SF were otherwise rejected, and on into SF of the present.

The literary critic Leslie A. Fiedler said something similar:[19]

Van Vogt is a test case, ...since an apology for or analysis of science fiction which fails to come to terms with his appeal and major importance, defends or defines the genre by falsifying it.

The American literary critic Fredric Jameson says of van Vogt:

...that van Vogt's work clearly prepares the way for that of the greatest of all Science Fiction writers, Philip K. Dick, whose extraordinary novels and stories are inconceivable without the opening onto that play of unconscious materials and fantasy dynamics released by van Vogt, and very different from the more hard-science aesthetic ideologies of his contemporaries (from Campbell to Heinlein).[20]:315

Nevertheless, van Vogt still has his critics. For example, Darrell Schweitzer writing to The New York Review of Science Fiction in 1999[21] quoted a passage from the original van Vogt novelette "The Mixed Men", which he was then reading, and remarked:

This is the realism, and logic, of a small boy playing with toy soldiers in a sandbox. I'm tougher than you. I’ve got a billion spaceships! They’re brand-new. They only took 800 years to develop.

And this is a story in which most of the cast either have two brains or are really robots...and even the emotions of the human characters are programmed or deprogrammed as part of plots within counter plots. Next to this, Doc Smith was an icy realist. There is no intersection with adult reality at any point, for all van Vogt was able to write was that small boy's sandbox game with an adult level of intensity. This is, I think, the secret of van Vogt's bizarre fascination, as awful as his actual writing might be, and why he appealed so strongly to Philip K. Dick, who managed to put more adult characters and emotions into equally crazy situations. It's ultimately very strange to find this sort of writing so prominently sponsored by supposedly rational and scientifically minded John W. Campbell, when it seems to contravene everything the Golden Age stood for.

Recognition

In 1946, van Vogt and his first wife, Edna Mayne Hull, were Guests of Honor at the fourth World Science Fiction Convention.[22]

In 1980, van Vogt received a "Casper Award" (precursor to the Canadian Prix Aurora Awards) for Lifetime Achievement.[23][24]

The Science Fiction Writers of America named him its 14th Grand Master in 1995 (presented 1996).[25] There had been great controversy within SFWA regarding its long wait in bestowing its highest honor (limited to living writers, no more than one annually[25]). Writing an obituary of van Vogt, Robert J. Sawyer, a fellow Canadian writer of science fiction remarked:

There was no doubt that van Vogt should have received this honor much earlier — the injustice of him being overlooked, at least in part because of damnable SFWA politics, had so incensed Harlan Ellison, a man with an impeccable moral compass, that he'd lobbied hard on the Sci-Fi Channel and elsewhere on van Vogt's behalf.[26]

It is generally held that the "damnable SFWA politics" concerns Damon Knight, the founder of the SFWA, who abhorred van Vogt's style and politics and thoroughly demolished his literary reputation in the 1950s.[27]

Harlan Ellison was more explicit in 1999 introduction to Futures Past: The Best Short Fiction of A. E. van Vogt:[17]

... at least I was able to make enough noise to get Van the Science Fiction Writers of America Grand Master Award, which was presented to him in full ceremony during one of the last moments when he was cogent and clearheaded enough to understand that finally, at last, dragged kicking and screaming to honor him, the generation that learned from what he did and what he had created had, at last, 'fessed up to his importance.

... were the same ones who assured me that Van would never get the Grand Master until Damon Knight had gotten it first, because Damon had loathed Van's work and had, in fact written the essay that ridiculed Van and held him up to opprobrium for decades thereafter, and Damon having founded SFWA it would be an affront to him if Van got it first. Well, I don't know if that's true or not, though it is was common coin in the field for years; but Damon got the Grand Master award in 1994. And Van got it in 1995. As they say during sweeps week on television: coincidence or conspiracy?

In 1996, van Vogt received a Special Award from the World Science Fiction Convention "for six decades of golden age science fiction".[24] That same year, the Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame inducted him in its inaugural class of two deceased and two living persons, along with writer Jack Williamson (also living) and editors Hugo Gernsback and John W. Campbell.[28]

The works of van Vogt were translated into French by the surrealist Boris Vian (The World of Null-A as Le Monde des Å in 1958), and van Vogt's works were "viewed as great literature of the surrealist school".[29] In addition, 'Slan' was published in French, translated by Jean Rosenthal, under the title À la poursuite des Slans, as part of the paperback series 'Editions J'ai Lu: Romans-Texte Integral' in 1973, this edition also listing the following works by van Vogt as having been published in French as part of this series: Le Monde des Å, La faune de l'espace, Les joueurs du Å, L'empire de l'atome, Le sorcier de Linn, Les armureries d'Isher, Les fabricants d'armes, and Le livre de Ptath.[30]

Damon Knight hated Lovecraft too. Joanna Russ said Knight nearly cried when she told him she was a huge Lovecraft fan.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 18:34 (eight years ago) link

lol at description of HE.

Instant Karmagideon Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 30 December 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.