Buttload of Faith: the 2016 Presidential Primary Thread (Pt 2)

if only they had read the Bible

you guys are smart, I'm baffled that you're this tripped up by theology

Catholics don't read the Bible!

btw james carroll discusses that kind of fundamental anti-semitism in the samaritan story and i've seen some ppl suggest maybe the original story was about an israelite and it was changed to a samaritan to provide the political need? idk, obv religions are complex multivocal etc but like it is interesting that even one of the most unambiguous cases of jesus preaching love for the stranger still exists within a discourse in which it is arguing for the very opposite. anyway also interesting bc this week the church had a big thing re the jews and their place in the religion. a lot of ppl have read the new status quo as a huge step forward for jewish-catholic relations but i've seen many jews who take exception to the idea that Jews are "people of God of Jews and Gentiles, united in Christ" as if they can't be allowed to have their own religious traditions and belief but must still line up (in a mysterious unfathomable way) w/ the very thing they spent two thousand years protesting. i mean on one level wanting to accept refugees so that you can impress them w/ christianity and hopefully convert them is a huge subversion of the supposed radical idea of kindness that some ppl argue jesus taught.

Papal dogma and doctrine >>>>>>>>> Bible

My mom, after twelve years of Catholic education, says she learned in college that Christ was a Jew.

alfred i'm sure the ppl involved w/ church + inquisition arm directed genocides + mass conversions read the Bible. or do you mean they didn't /read/ the Bible, they just read it

Um, the story of the good samaritan doesn't mention sects? It's a priest and a levite, not 'sects'?

if *only* that story had more sects

priest + levite are jewish castes and the samaritans were a heretical jewish sect. the natural third for that story would be an israelite (the non-temple jewish caste).

He went to him [...] pouring on oil and wine

xp

alfred i'm sure the ppl involved w/ church + inquisition arm directed genocides + mass conversions read the Bible. or do you mean they didn't /read/ the Bible, they just read it

― Mordy,

the early Church fathers had a fascination with Pauline theory and the Old Testament, both of which emphasize battle and conquest for the righteous before God.

But we're going off subject to prove our smarts. Is it unchristian for a conservative voter to pick on a homo? Yes, full stop.

It's very specifically about the upper caste of jewish priesthood not doing anything, while an outcast does. To claim that it's against 'Jews' is nonsense.

what do u think the 'upper caste of jewish priesthood' means?

anyway to bring it around to that NRO article about the SUPER SECRET evangelical primary -- pretty clearly the trump constituency are the kinds of people are the kinds of people who view themselves as American before any particular religious commitment, nationalism vs conservatism if you like

this is the weirdest tangent for this thread (I am positive we've discussed the Good Samaritan parable somewhere else)

xp

in one of the atheism-related threads i think? and somewhat recently?

(take a look at the salon interview - he says very eloquently what i was trying to argue on that thread)

I have no idea what you're asking about, Mordy? Have you read Reza Aslan's Zealot? I read the Salon interview and Carroll doesn't strike me as the most knowledgable man about the context. He's also seemingly only educated as a theologician? I don't think he knows what he's talking about. The whole thing about Jesus not attacking the temple seems dumb to me as well. People WERE attacking the temple institutions, the head priest got assassinated inside it around that time.

Also, his idea that manicheism (though he never says this word) is born out of anti-semitism seems dubious to me as well.

the ppl who ignore the man are representatives of the temple faith. the implicit suggestion (stated elsewhere explicitly) is that they are more concerned w/ the strict law than w/ kindness/love. this is a fundamental dichotomy that the text is affirming here. the good samaritan is a member of a heretical sect that is good by virtue of his complete disassociation w/ contemporaneous jewry. that's why the third person is a samaritan and not the anticipated israelite (where at least you could read an affirmation of humble/outsiderness w/out the sting of absolute theological rejection). idk why his theological background is a problem - i'd trust his educational training on a topic like this more than any other institutional expertise (except maybe a strict bible crit pov which i think would agree w/ a number of his pts).

i do find it amusing how defensive christians get about this tho

It's not 'contemporaneous jewry'. It's upper caste jewry. And the good samaritan is good because he does good.

And I'd trust a religious historian to point out the original history of the bible text, more than a theologician. He seems to have no awareness of any kind of history.

I have a degree in history, btw. I think that has as much to do with my 'defensiveness' as my religion does.

okay lol

upper caste is a misnomer. they were the religious priests who conducted the temple service integral to jewish ritual life of which detailed references persist in the daily liturgy of jewish prayer in 2015.

I wish Jesus had known about dinosaurs tbh

he knew they were a HOAX

And final thing, but aren't priests and levites also israelites? It would be like a joke: 'a new yorker, a southerner, and an american walks into a bar'...

no, 3 different castes. israelite is understood to mean not a cohen or a levi

upper caste is a misnomer. they were the religious priests who conducted the temple service integral to jewish ritual life of which detailed references persist in the daily liturgy of jewish prayer in 2015.

― Mordy, 16. december 2015 00:09 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That is not opposites. Christian history is full of anti-clericalism as well, and not based on anti-religion, but religious and political elites has often been intertwined.

What Would Jesus Run As?

has anyone ever made a movie in which jesus came back and ran for president?

JESUS 2016

http://ratiochristi.org/media/events/photos/whyjesus.JPG

https://twitter.com/naijcom/status/675429038039633920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

jesus be like "wha?"

he looks confused about being on Twitter

"God is my hashtag? Why?"

They should get Andy Serkis to funny suit animate that caveman Jesus.

He looks a little like Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds facially.

they should use that computer to tell us the son of man's IQ

Caught some of Hannity out of Buffalo on the way home tonight, and he was complaining about Obama not bombing oil fields to choke off funding of Isis. "We need a wartime president." His wording reminded me of James Caan in The Godfather: "If I had a wartime consiglieri--a Sicilian--I wouldn't be in this shape. Pop had Genco, look what I got."

I hope someone in this debate gets panicky.

Besides the audience, you mean.

lol we DID bomb the oil fields just recently after holding off for a while

http://time.com/4145903/islamic-state-oil-syria/

although the fine print of that article does suggest some hesitancy & inertia

did rubio, cruz and jeb all say "everyone understands" why people reacted to trump the way they did?

watching this debate i feel like i'm hallucinating getting attacked by terrorists once a month over the past eight years

Are Americans really more afraid than at any time since 9/11?

I can't believe they're still running nine people out there. If school teams operated that way, we'd still be holding football tryouts in June.

Is the San Bernardino attack really being treated as a terrorist attack on some different level than a crazy guy shooting up a clinic in Colorado Springs?

I'd like the moderators to ask these guys how they would fundamentally distinguish the San Bernardino shooting from the Colorado Springs shooting. Does it just boil down to the religion of the shooter?