Buttload of Faith: the 2016 Presidential Primary Thread (Pt 2)

i'm really surprised that none of the democratic candidates are running on the We'll do the best we can but republican gridlock will make substantial progress pretty much impossible Platform, that seems like a real motivator

― Karl Malone, Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i take your point. in a way, bernie's plan of mass engagement is closer to a real solution -- electing as many marginal-district dems to congress as possible.

but we saw how that worked before! we already know the limit. we're all old enough to remember 08 and 09... and 10

yeah, but that's the naivete of his supporters, not sanders, right?

i can see criticism of sanders' supporters for naively buying into the probably impossible ideas, but not criticism of sanders for running on that platform. like it or not, politicians try to motivate people to vote for them by laying out their vision of what they would ideally achieve, not what they are most likely to achieve. if sanders' strategy was to talk about what can realistically be accomplished with a GOP-dominated house, he'd be at like 1.0234% in the polls right now. and he may not end up winning, but at least he's pulling clinton to the left.

so it may be annoying to see a bunch of college kids fooled into thinking that if only sanders were president everything would be fixed, but shit, those kids might be trump supporters if they grew up in different circumstances.

and with possibly my first ever disparaging of "the kids", i hereby announce my intention to retire and move into the woods

I was one of those college kids when Obama ran

has anyone asked hillary about reparations
--mookieproof

Yes at the same time and she dodged it basically.

and he may not end up winning, but at least he's pulling clinton to the left.
--Karl Malone

Debatable at this point.

my feeling is that any democratic president is going to surround him/herself with capable people to run the various parts of the executive branch, but that sanders would be better by some degree when it came to actual decision-making

― k3vin k., Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:42 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sadly recent experience with the obama administration shows any new dem president will staff themselves with establishment retreads and the status quo wont budge.

Debatable at this point.

dunno, i think we're just getting started, it's january 20

A couple things:

It seems like Sanders would help on GOTV efforts on the dem side, which might help swing congress back toward dem. Even more importantly, he's not going to motivate GOP voters to come out to vote against him like Hilary will.

Sanders is the ONLY candidate with a net positive favorability rating.

sadly recent experience with the obama administration shows any new dem president will staff themselves with establishment retreads and the status quo wont budge.

so wait, you're saying that avowed centrist Barack Obama ran a centrist campaign and then staffed his administration with centrist thinkers? HOW SHOCKING, WHO COULD HAVE POSSIBLY PREDICTED THIS

Im pretty sure candidate obama ran against the imperial bush presidency and pretty much embraced it wholeheartedly once in office.

to the right of W on surveillance, whistleblowers and global AIDS funding

yes, obama will go down in history as the hitler of aids

far to the right of W on establishing enormous marine reserves

I wonder what the 'welcome to the presidency' boot camp is like where the CIA and NSA, et al lifers scare the fucking shit out of whoever wins and they explain all the horrible things they do to keep the status quo

I wonder what the 'welcome to the presidency' boot camp is like where the CIA and NSA, et al lifers scare the fucking shit out of whoever wins and they explain all the horrible things they do to keep the status quo

Bill Hicks (stand-up comedian, died in the 90s) had a bit about how they take newly elected presidents into a dark room and show them the Kennedy assassination, filmed from an angle nobody's ever seen before, and just ask, "Any questions?"

my only hesitation with bernie as president is that he'd be so utterly ineffection due to republican stalemates nothing would ever happen, he'd lose relection or not run due to age, and then a republican will come in and blow the world up in 2020.

that's true of anybody though. the only reason obama could pass ACA is because the world was shook by the financial crisis.

bernie prob won't get much of anything through congress, but i don't think HRC with all her "experience" will do any better. any dem who ends up being president will prob look more like obama's last couple years than his first couple years -- executive orders and good speeches.

I'm at the same place goole is, it sounds like

(many xposts)

Jeb Lund:

Blaming Track Palin’s problems on Obama’s policy is just trading in the old Stabbed In The Back myth, repurposed from Weimar Germany by way of Vietnam, to synonymize an antipathy for the policy and strategy for which troops died with an antipathy for the troops themselves. (Let’s also not forget that neglecting the VA has been a bipartisan sin.) And whatever insufficiency of warmongering Obama has manifested over the years has never been paired with anything short of voluble, frequent praise for service members.

Even if Palin’s assertions were true, that’s a weird way for PTSD to manifest, so furious at a policy that it leads someone to lash out in the home as opposed to expressing anything at the source of the anger. Is it related to all troop withdrawals and just to Obama? What about other policy makers? And why didn’t this come up earlier? Was Track Palin drunk and shirtless at the Palin’s 2014 pier-six brawl because of Obama too?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/jan/20/presidential-election-2016-campaign-coverage-trump-palin-live#block-569ff592e4b0e5eaffebb920

i just realized that whoever gives alan grayson the best chance of winning rubio's florida senate seat will get my vote

Sanders is the ONLY candidate with a net positive favorability rating.

this is because 27% of the electorate has never heard of him

right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'

easy talkin border blockin

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/opinions/ta-nehisi-coates-attack-on-bernie-sanders-mcwhorter/index.html

I'm Ric Flair! The Stylin', profilin', limousine riding, jet flying, kiss-stealing, wheelin' n' dealin' son of a gun!

that ciara remix vine of palin is impressive

"any dem who ends up being president will prob look more like obama's last couple years than his first couple years -- executive orders and good speeches."

given that even the pretense of u.s. bipartisan governance has been dead since at least 2010, yeah, probably.

fuck bipartisan governance, just give the majority of a chamber the ability to pass legislation - there are TWO whole other branches of government to rein it in! for fuck's sake it's all so broke

did y'all see the iggy azalea vine

having either a socialist or a [whatever trump is] president might cause some really weird/ugly 'bipartisan' stuff to happen in congress

then again based on the ratcheting into line behind trump we're seeing among pundits and donors on the right, maybe only sanders would have to deal with that heh

ie the GOP at all levels will make its peace with trump pretty quickly here, and for good, if he wins.

the sun rising tomorrow having either a socialist or a [whatever trump is] president might cause some really weird/ugly 'bipartisan' stuff to happen in congress

Im pretty sure candidate obama ran against the imperial bush presidency and pretty much embraced it wholeheartedly once in office in 2008.

― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries),

I love that this is all predicated on revenge; "Bob Dole learned his mentor's lessons well," Mr. Dole was heard to say.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/20/bob-dole-warns-of-cataclysmic-losses-with-ted-cruz-and-says-donald-trump-would-do-better/?_r=0

any dem who ends up being president will prob look more like obama's last couple years than his first couple years -- executive orders and good speeches.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:30 PM

otm

:D

https://twitter.com/Elizabeth_Calo/status/689943146436886532

great hashtag

i can imagine a future where dems do fantastic in 2016 and you start seeing some republicans willing to break w/ the party to vote on bipartisan bills. i get the sense that there are a lot of republicans (among their editorialists/thinkers and legislators both) that are dissatisfied with the current party and esp if trump wins there are a whole bunch of republican op-ed ppl who have denounced him vigorously and it's hard to imagine them just falling back in line. idk i don't give this a strong chance of happening but it seems within the realms of possibility imo.

you start seeing some republicans willing to break w/ the party to vote on bipartisan bills

what Districts/states are these guys from

hypothetically

PA

cuz the people that used to do that in the Senate are gone, and the vast majority of GOP reps in the House are from otherwise safe Districts where they will get pilloried + primaried for collaboration

(xp)

i can speak best to my local politics since i know it best but i assume there are similar things for other moderate states that might lean dem - OH, IO maybe. but there are republicans in office here who are still like "responsible" moderate republicans. in this nom race there are even some so you know they exist.

but maybe any wave that could be convincing enough to get them to start voting on bipartisan bills might also throw them out of office

the republicans are like a fun-house mirror version of the british labour party, with a national leadership that is veering so close to some kind of event horizon relative to party rank and file that the two are in danger of disappearing from mutual view altogether

Toomey seems p right-wing to me, idg where any moderation on his positions in the Senate would come from unless he becomes desperate to hang onto his seat because he's being challenged from the left (which also seems unlikely)

on the House side seems like there's a couple Reps that might be flexible - Dent, idk about a lot of the others

xp