Buttload of Faith: the 2016 Presidential Primary Thread (Pt 2)

a vox article about how many mayors were former businessmen: probably about 75%

Watching Sanders a couple of times this morning, he's got one really good answer and one terrible non-answer. I don't think Bloomberg will ever run, but asked how a Trump/Sanders/Bloomberg election would go, he answered exactly as he should: it'd be him against two obscenely rich guys, and he'd be okay with that. But asked about Ta-Nehisi Coates and reparations, he avoids the question altogether. I don't want to wade into that myself, but he has to--he has to explain himself.

nyc has a larger population than like half the countries on the planet so I mean 'mayor of a city' sure...

Mayor of New York City probably a more relevant previous job than senior senator from Vermont

because nyc is a big city?

yes, please shut up

This jamming of Sanders on reparations is so disingenuous. Has anyone asked Queen Hillary how she feels about it?

Yes, that's exactly the defense that is needed, that's what he should say.

Good god this thread is on a loop now

Well at least we're nearing the end, no?

No, the beginning.

what Churchill called the end of the beginning. My end comes in 2050 when rising seas take out Aventura and North Miami.

Here's the Conyers bill. I don't see why a candidate like Sanders couldn't come out in favor of the bill in lieu of specifics yet about what reparations might look like.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr40

i see why

Well at least we're nearing the end, no?

No, but once there has been an actual primary with voting results (NH), perhaps someone could start a Part 3 to this thread.

Here's the Conyers bill.

Although a commission authorized by Congress would carry a somewhat greater weight of authority, the quality of the recommendations will be all that matters. In which case, any organization or foundation could sponsor a commission, find suitably qualified people to serve and come up with a set of findings and recommendations, even if the Conyers bill languishes under Republican control (which, realistically, it will).

A commission authorized by Congress would be an unprecedented legitimization of the argument for reparations, even if none of the recommendations ever came to anything.
A commission by a think tank or other NGO would be a meaningless trifle, even if it were co-authored by CATO, Heritage, ACLU, AFL-CIO, Brookings, AEI, ThinkProgress and the Chamber all singing in harmony.

A commission co-authored by CATO, Heritage, ACLU, AFL-CIO, Brookings, AEI, ThinkProgress and the Chamber all singing in harmony would be anything but a meaningless trifle. It would be a political miracle. But I understand your point.

Sanders didn't totally avoid the question on reparations; he said that his position is the same as Obama's and the same as Hillary's, which is that we need to focus on fixing the future (with the implication that reparations = rehashing the past, which honestly is something close to what Obama has said about a lot of things in the past, and is fairly standard "mistakes were made"/"if we stop swimming we die" politician rhetoric).

the idea that being from a "weird state" without enough people disqualifies you from seeking the presidency is one of the more repulsive and undemocratic ideas i've seen voiced around here

The idea that anyone has said that on here is one of the weirder claims in this thread.

(xxpost) I agree that you could infer all of that into his answer, but that's where he left it, inference: "My reasons are the same as Obama and Clinton," followed by a general discourse on economic opportunity that never mentioned what the reasons were. I'm not saying anything about the validity of his position one way or the other, I just think he'd come across a lot better by simply explaining himself clearly (and regardless of whether the same explanation is demanded of Obama and Clinton).

'member of congress in a safe seat who always gets to vote his conscience (except on guns) cause you're only accountable to a couple hundred thousand people in a weird state and they like you' is a super sweet gig but it prepares someone for presidency about as much as idk, separating conjoined twins or having a pizza empire

― iatee, Saturday, January 23, 2016 8:01 PM (Yesterday)

Mayor of New York City probably a more relevant previous job than senior senator from Vermont

― pizza rolls are a food that exists (silby), Sunday, January 24, 2016 5:41 PM (1 hour ago)

I didn't claim that was disqualifying! The idea of "qualifying" for the presidency is inane anyway.

ok fair enough, scratch the second post

The first quote doesn't talk about disqualifying either. Just says it doesn't prepare you either.

the idea that being from a "weird state" without enough people disqualifies you from seeking the presidency is one of the more repulsive and undemocratic ideas i've seen voiced around here

vermont is a tiny and overwhelmingly white state that went for obama by a 36% margin last election. it is not 'weird' because it is filled w/ weird people, it is weird because its politics are pretty far out of line with national politics. and fwiw the same is true for nyc. sanders can say 'I have decided...I am a socialist' and bloomberg can say 'guns, cars and soda are literally the worst things in the universe' and both guys can stay elected. in vermont and nyc.

http://bitterempire.com/presidential-candidates-ranked-usefulness-bar-fight/

OK, sure. Whatever. Much like the Republican race, Rubio is ranked this high because he seems to be in reasonably good health and everyone else in the fray is so screamingly awful.

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perhaps throwing hundreds in jail without charge at protests of the Republican convention and ramping up stop-and-frisk should disqualify Bloomfuck.

And he's gay, right?

In the words of Buddy Cole, "No... I just don't want him to be."

Lol

laugh, turn

https://vimeo.com/152786370

Ta-nehisi Coates keeps the fire on: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-liberal-imagination/425022/

It has really hit a nerve, I think. Sanders' response on Meet the Press was weak, but one thing was more just sad and frightening. When he began talking about how the solution was getting people involved, making congress represent the working families, lifting the percentage of people voting, especially young people. It's populism, basically. That makes the whole thing about it being 'divisive' so much clearer, and so much worse. It's white populism, plain and simple.

Also, my tl is filled with activists complaining about his followers today. Nettaaaaaa retweeted this, which really hits the nail on the head:

Vann R. Newkirk II ‏@fivefifths 2h2 hours ago
I get more trolls and racially meh shit here when offering mild critiques of Bernie than I do for ever saying anything about say, Trump.
Vann R. Newkirk II ‏@fivefifths 2h2 hours ago
This is a point I've belabored enough, but this is a problem. A real problem.
Vann R. Newkirk II ‏@fivefifths 2h2 hours ago
And let's save the "Bernie isn't his supporters" stuff. Do we apply the same logic when a Tea Party candidate's fans call Obama epithets?

But some feminists has been complaining also, and not just about responses. Just about how so many mansplainers for instance seems to #FeeltheBern. It really is a problem.

i for one am concerned

i think coates' best pt there is that if you believe sanders' candidacy is about pushing the democratic party to the left more than 'electability' why is that true for everything except race/reparations?

The thing I find the most irritating is when white acquaintances post pictures of Bernie and Killer Mike all over their timelines with captions that amount to "See, black people? See? #FeelTheBern"

Position-wise, both Sanders and Clinton strongly represent my interests. I literally do not care which one of them gets the nomination; I will vote for either of them. I am tuning out of most of the wrangling because all it's really doing is making me hate and despise the people who support them, a significant subsection of which don't seem to realize that they are racist monsters.

i'm glad that bernie's in the race, some of the (to be generous) awkwardness w/ identity politics in his part i chalk up to being from a tiny overwhelmingly white state where he barely ever had to run a competitive race as well as obv generation gap so it's easy to forgive (for me, a straight white male). not so easy to forgive his followers who were tweeting some really awful stuff at coates over the weekend. i'm voting for whoever, if bernie's still competitive after south carolina (define that as wins iowa and new hampshire and holds his own in sc) i'll probably vote bernie, if not i'll vote hillary. if you were being charitable you could say that talk of bloomberg is related to concern over an anti-gun control candidate winning the dem nod but c'mon that isn't why he might run. in a weird way i like these threats of petulant third party runs from third way types, that the landscape has changed enough that bloombergs would be reduced to a nader spoiler role (to an extent you can add the talk of a weekly standard/nro candidate running independent as well)(this was floated as likely by bill kristol so obv has no shot of actually happening). fuckers are annoyed, maybe even scared.

lol

A prominent aide to George W. Bush's 2000 campaign could barely contain himself when we asked him to discuss Cruz, who worked in the campaign's policy shop. This person described Cruz as hyper-arrogant and widely despised, and he emphasized—over and over—that the pervasive dislike of Cruz within the Bush ranks had nothing to do with ideology. (Cruz, he noted, never objected to Bush's call for compassionate conservatism, immigration reform, and national education standards, and no one on the campaign regarded him as an ideologue.) The problem was simple: his personality.

"Ted thought he was an expert on everything," says this campaign veteran, who asked not to be named. "He was a smart and talented guy, but completely taken with himself and his own ideas. He would offer up opinions on everything, even matters outside his portfolio. He was a policy guy, but he would push his ideas on campaign strategy. He would send memos on everything to everyone. He would come to meetings where he wasn't invited—and wasn't wanted." In fact, this Bush alum recalls, "the quickest way for a meeting to end would be for Ted to come in. People would want out of that meeting. People wouldn't go to a meeting if they knew he would be there. It was his inability to be part of the team. That's exactly what he was: a big asshole."

The Bush vet goes on: "I don't know anyone who had a decent relationship with Cruz." And when Bush became president, his top campaign aides agreed Cruz should not be offered a job in the White House. "No one wanted to work with him," this source remembers. "George W. Bush couldn't stand the guy."

It's actually kind of amazing that someone as widely despised as Cruz is electable even at the state-wide level.

the reaction from various gop congressmen, other gop candidates, seemingly everyone who has met the man over the weekend on twitter when new numbers came out showing some collapse in his support in iowa was hilarious. EVERYBODY hates that guy.

I get more trolls and racially meh shit here when offering mild critiques of Bernie than I do for ever saying anything about say, Trump.

this is cuz Trump supporters don't read you/know who you are duh

It's actually kind of amazing that someone as widely despised as Cruz is electable even at the state-wide level.

Yeah, but think of the state.

glass houses, you ppl elected renowned biggest asshole alive rahm twice

I think Chicagoans were just confused because it'd been so long since they had a choice.

EVERYBODY hates that guy.

That comes through loud and clear in everything I see. Cruz of course it trying to make this a positive--everyone hates him because he can't be bought, wants to shake things up, etc. Waiting for a reporter to say to him, "Plus you're really creepy, no?"

Let's put Trump, Cruz, and Bush in a burlap sack and throw it in the sea

Trump and Bush would perish but we all know Cruz would chew his way out.

The hatred for Cruz is pretty impressive in its consistency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOeNZ1HtimE