I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

scott she has been complicit in assorted state bloodiness perpetrated by the Peace Prizee and recommended worse, if that counts

New favorite headline:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/south-carolina-primary-2016-live-updates-and-results/2016/02/marco-rubio-debate-performances-219093

the image of her as some kind of grizzled veteran who knows how to play the game is one of the few that seems to resonate

maybe but "grizzled" is more Sanders' thing and also - she's NOT a grizzled veteran, she's never won a national campaign, she's never even really won a hard-fought state campaign. If she's going to argue that she's "battle tested" she needs to start actually, y'know, battling. Which means destroying Sanders. Which would not be pretty and would potentially backfire. And that's why she hasn't done it yet.

Bernie's narrative is relatively easy to grasp - "I am an old morally upright angry guy that hates the rich!". Hillary has no such narrative at the moment. She's relying on party mechanics and long-standing relationships to carry her along, rather than on enthusiastic voters.

xp

still not as bad as any of the republicans. even with all the drone murders and everything else.

x-post

man, the guys she faced for the Senate in NY were total tomato cans. Rick Lazio!

It seems like Hillary's big problem with voters is honesty/trustworthiness. Maybe she should try a little jujitsu along with a pivot toward the general and say something like: Look the GOP is probablygoing to nominate Trump or Cruz, either of whom will say/do anything to get elected. Either of them would eat Sanders for breakfast with demagoguery/dirty tricks. You need someone who's survived the GOP slime machine and knows how to fight fire with fire.

hi, i'm Hillary Clinton. i understand some of you don't think i'm trustworthy. but Trump/Cruz will do absolutely anything to get elected. you know they'll use every dirty trick they can think of to defeat the democrat in this election. so let be me clear: i will also use every dirty trick I can think of to defeat them, and you better believe i have more than they do. buuuuut, i'm also honest and trustworthy.

free hotdogs for everyone if i'm elected!

o.nate, do you Read The Comments much? that is a go-to rationale for many/most Clinton partisans.

have to say, yr killin it these days KM

hey, let's put those violent metaphors in the corner

haha, sadly my productivity on ilx is inverse to however i'm doing in the regular world

that crazy buzzfeed article was kind of haunting. it's amazing (1) how little i identify her with the message/theme/reason for living she's trying to articulate, to the extent i understand that message, and (2) how largely incomprehensible that message is.

speaking of violence, i took note of the NYT front page just after the Iowa caucuses:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaRB55xWkAU6kNb.jpg

Cruz brings it (this ad is v v good imo):
https://youtu.be/onUaRyvfv1A

one of the best cruz ads I've seen, as cruz is not in it

politics ain't beanbag, but i'd bet HRC is better at beanbag.

I admit that whenever my children declare eminent domain over someone else's land, I need to give them a stern talking-to

she would have to murder a million vince fosters to be as bad as trump or whoever. i think that's a fine platform to run on. Never gonna be as bad as those losers!

― scott seward, Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:30 PM (25 minutes ago)

tbh HRC is complicit in policies that have resulted in a pretty horrific death toll, in terms of foreign policy she's not much better than some of the republican candidates.

sort of confusing though that the Trump action figure in the ad looks a bit like Cruz as well

xp

countdown to Trump releasing an ad of himself cutting the ears and nose off a Ted Cruz doll

she's NOT a grizzled veteran, she's never won a national campaign, she's never even really won a hard-fought state campaign

this. the most mystifying thing to me in this whole campaign is the assumption (even by sanders! at least publicly) that hillary clinton is this extremely accomplished, long-serving politician. she was barely in the senate longer than obama (and never held elected office before that, unlike him), she was a shitty cabinet member, what else...? i guess her just being in the public eye for so long has fooled people into thinking that amounts to something more than it does.

hey it's working for Trump

. o O ( "tomato cans"? )

wow that cruz ad grossed me out so much, those poor kids

leaving a trail of slime wherever he goes...

Maybe the "grizzled veteran" thing isn't the answer. I agree there is a certain formlessness/coldness to her political image that is a big weakness. I think she needs to figure out how to show passion on an issue that really means a lot to her and will resonate with voters. She's too all-over-the-map right now. Bill famously had "It's the economy, stupid" emblazoned on the walls of his campaign office, as a reminder to stay on message. People are deeply unhappy with Washington right now. I think she's been trying to stay too close to the center, thinking Sanders is not enough of a threat. She needs to shift course and co-opt one of Bernie's issues immediately. It will look opportunistic, but those voters who care about that are already not voting for her.

@JoseCanseco
hug for u Carly Florina. goodbye

I live four blocks from his ancestral home

she needs to distill things. which usually means a story/narrative about her that can be boiled down to a couple sentences. Even if it's just "let's elect a woman for once"

xp

Trying to decide if it's worth watching this Johnny Depp "Art of the Deal" web movie.

what's with the "nominally"

xpost I know he was born and raised Jewish, but does he currently identify himself as Jewish? Either way, I'll take it! I even had an Uncle Bernie irl.

Thought the line in Sanders' speech last night about everything-so-far-but-the-kitchen-sink, and that he had a feeling the kitchen sink was on its way, was kind of poignant.

It seems like Hillary's big problem with voters is honesty/trustworthiness. Maybe she should try a little jujitsu along with a pivot toward the general and say something like: Look the GOP is probablygoing to nominate Trump or Cruz, either of whom will say/do anything to get elected. Either of them would eat Sanders for breakfast with demagoguery/dirty tricks. You need someone who's survived the GOP slime machine and knows how to fight fire with fire.

― o. nate,

HRC's voter problem is an inability to convince voters that she's any more qualified to be president than the ornery Vermontian.

his followup tweet here is even weirder

https://twitter.com/JoseCanseco/status/697544935977852929

this. the most mystifying thing to me in this whole campaign is the assumption (even by sanders! at least publicly) that hillary clinton is this extremely accomplished, long-serving politician. she was barely in the senate longer than obama (and never held elected office before that, unlike him), she was a shitty cabinet member, what else...? i guess her just being in the public eye for so long has fooled people into thinking that amounts to something more than it does.

― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:12 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wouldn't say she's "extremely accomplished" but I'd say she has a lot of experience with the inside view of how presidential politics works and with weathering the blows of being a controversial national figure. Also I don't particularly like her on foreign policy but is there really a case that she was a "shitty" secretary of state?

doves don't like that she pushed for greater intervention in syria but 3 years later i don't know that obama's plan has saved more lives

"tomato cans"?

Another boxing term! For stiffs, pushovers.

yeah I don't think she was particularly bad (and there were no good options in Syria), but it is interesting that Kerry seems to have the bigger accomplishments (Iran deal, primarily)

btw
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-4167.html#!

Holy shit, I got chills.

And those are pre-NH results.

Isn't Nevada next? That one is a caucus and could get weird.

Also I don't particularly like her on foreign policy but is there really a case that she was a "shitty" secretary of state?

What makes her a good one? Honest question.

srsly I haven't one event in her State Department resume that doesn't look like CV padding.

*haven't seen

making new allies and not making any new enemies is the Sec of State's job afaict

I was just looking at the 2008 primary wiki and goddamn I had forgotten how long that dragged on. Sanders may have the money, but I don't think he has the same widespread bases of support from the various voter demographics and party insiders that Obama had, his appeal isn't as broad, and Clinton's got to have locked up a lot of the superdelegates even more thoroughly than before. If this goes on as long as the 2008 primary did I'll be surprised.

I had a dim memory of Hillary winning California (which I remembered cuz I refused to vote for her - at least Obama carried my district)

Dead Libyans make poor allies.

clinton did a good job with myanmar. i mean, everything else she did kind of sucked, but props for myanmar, for sure.