i'm not talking about half speed masters, i'm talking about "vinyl people"
So preferring these half speed vinyls isn't really a matter of wanting the best possible sound quality, because that can't be acquired on vinyl.
i don't know about this particular set of half speed mastered vinyls we're talking about, but in general this isn't necessarily true.. and i'm not talking about obscure shit, major stuff like Deep Purple - In Rock, Duran Duran's self titled, it's hard to get a decent CD.
― lute bro (brimstead), Friday, 19 February 2016 08:27 (eight years ago) link
but when they say they prefer it for its inherently better sound quality, that's just snake oil.
you've heard of the beatles, right? well in the 80s they put their albums out on CD. they sounded like shit. they put them out again 7 years ago and they sounded really good but NOT THE SAME as the original "vinyls". almost "remixed". the beatles! so people aren't just being dumbass hipsters when they want good vinyl.
― lute bro (brimstead), Friday, 19 February 2016 08:30 (eight years ago) link
but i agree in a perfect world or whatever, every CD would be mastered properly with the correct tracklisting and without dave mustaine re-recording his vocals
― lute bro (brimstead), Friday, 19 February 2016 08:31 (eight years ago) link
or something
also vinyl people buy vinyl because it (used to be?) cheap
― lute bro (brimstead), Friday, 19 February 2016 08:40 (eight years ago) link
signed, captain obvious
Yeah, I agree that in some cases there's aren't a good CD master available, but I wouldn't have thought it applied to a band as big as The Beatles. I would've thought their albums would've been remastered at least three times by now, considering how many people would buy them. What was the problem with those remasters from 7 years ago?
(xpost)
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 08:43 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, that used to be the reason why I bought many albums on vinyl too. But nowadays with vinyl being hip and CD being unhip, CDs are as cheap as dirt. Often you can get a new or a good quality used copy of an album for less than it would cost to buy it as MP3s on Amazon.
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 08:46 (eight years ago) link
Anyway, that's not pertinent to this discussion, because I assume these half-speed super-mastered vinyls will cost much much more than the same albums on CD. (Or even on SACD, in some cases - you can buy an SACD version of the Police album they mention for 20 quids on Amazon.)
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 08:51 (eight years ago) link
http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/sound-leisure-new-vinyl-jukebox/
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 13:46 (eight years ago) link
Whatever the reason for preferring vinyl, CD has inherently better sound reproduction capability than vinyl, no matter how the vinyl is mastered.
no no, the opposite is true. vinyl inherently better sound quality. not sure where you're getting your information
― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 19 February 2016 14:09 (eight years ago) link
Er, since it's a commonly known fact, there a lot of sources, but this is possibly the best overall analysis of various myths relating to vinyl:
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_%28Vinyl%29
The dynamic range of vinyl, when evaluated as the ratio of a peak sinusoidal amplitude to the peak noise density at that sine wave frequency, is somewhere around 80 dB. Under theoretically ideal conditions, this could perhaps improve to 120 dB. The dynamic range of CDs, when evaluated on a frequency-dependent basis and performed with proper dithering and oversampling, is somewhere around 150 dB. Under no legitimate circumstances will the dynamic range of vinyl ever exceed the dynamic range of CD, under any frequency, given the wide performance gap and the physical limitations of vinyl playback.
Besides the lower dynamic range, there are other issues that make vinyl worse in sound reproduction, such as the fact that low bass sounds have to be mastered in mono to stop the needle from jumping out of the groove.
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 14:15 (eight years ago) link
And of course there's the fact (which is the biggest reason I don't like vinyl) that the sound quality of the record will inevitably deteriorate the more you play it, which isn't the case with CDs. This is particularly irksome when buying used records, because you'll never know how good the record you're buying is gonna sound.
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 14:19 (eight years ago) link
I guess all this doesn't matter that much in rock music or other genres where a lo-fi aesthetic is common and flaws in the sound reproduction are not big deal to the listener. But the two genres I listen to most are classical and electronic music, and sound quality is important to me, so I'm not particularly enamoured by vinyl. Sadly, these days a lot electronic music gets its physical release only on vinyl (or even worse, cassette), though thankfully most of that stuff is usually available as FLACs or WAVs too.
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 14:25 (eight years ago) link
I completely understand if people prefer vinyl for other reasons, be it larger cover art or nostalgia or the fact than many records aren't available in other formats, but when they say they prefer it for its inherently better sound quality, that's just snake oil.
― Tuomas, Friday, February 19, 2016 3:00 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Additionally, if listeners are seeking the best quality analog playback -- that is, the analog format that most closely reproduces the original master tape -- that'd be reel-to-reel tapes, not vinyl. But they're expensive (used or, especially, new), the nostalgia market for reel-to-reels is minuscule, and only one company makes new reel-to-reel decks (and only started doing so recently).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 19 February 2016 14:45 (eight years ago) link
the two genres I listen to most are classical
CDs are definitely the way to go for classical music, not least for not having to flip the record over halfway through and interrupt the performance.
i only buy vinyl but sound quality is not really a concern for me. the larger art and the availability of really cheap used vinyl is the main reason that i got into collecting vinyl in the first place. then as my cd player died and i stopped driving (the car CD player being where i consumed most my CD music) and even stopped using the CDr drive on my computer, i found the used record market stayed the same.
ofc this thread seems about "earnest new vinyl collectors" not sure if it is the collectors that are new or the vinyl that is new, cos new vinyl is a ripoff.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 19 February 2016 14:54 (eight years ago) link
thread applies to either, noobs buying old "hot stampers" or old heads buying some new subscription scam
Tuomas your crusade against any listening format other than CDs is so tiresome, you parade your ignorance around like it's a badge of honor.
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 15:21 (eight years ago) link
ilx is full of posters on that crusade
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 15:26 (eight years ago) link
the two genres I listen to most are classical and electronic music, and sound quality is important to me, so I'm not particularly enamoured by vinyl. Sadly, these days a lot electronic music gets its physical release only on vinyl (or even worse, cassette), though thankfully most of that stuff is usually available as FLACs or WAVs too.
― Tuomas, Friday, February 19, 2016 9:25 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm with Tuomas. Replace "classical and electronic music" with "jazz" and that's me. I like vinyl but rarely buy it anymore (and hardy ever "new" vinyl). CDs are pennies on the dollar now and sound as good today as they ever did or ever will. I've been buying albums I've wanted for years because they're just so inexpensive.
― Wimmels, Friday, 19 February 2016 15:33 (eight years ago) link
That said, two things I definitely "collect" - Dead bootlegs and a lot of ECM stuff - frustratingly seem to be holding their value on CD for some reason
― Wimmels, Friday, 19 February 2016 15:34 (eight years ago) link
What ignorance? I said CDs are inherently better at reproducing sound, which is a fact. And I also said I understand why some people choose vinyl for various reasons, but it's not for me, and tried to explain why my particular listening preferences make CDs (or lossless files) a better choice. Where's the "ignorance" or "crusade" in that?
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 15:40 (eight years ago) link
I rest my case
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 15:49 (eight years ago) link
I admit that this is a pet peeve subject of mine, but that's because I know a lot of vinylphiles, and I've heard these claims about vinyl's better sound quality a zillion times, so I tend to try to debunk them whenever I come across them. But that doesn't mean I'm firmly against vinyl or don't think there are many valid reasons why people can enjoy it. And some albums do sound better on vinyl than on CD, mostly ones that were released in the early days of CDs (when CD mastering was still in its infancy, so a lot weird choices were made) and haven't been remastered since. But there's no objective basis for the claim that vinyl is inherently better than CD as a medium for reproducing sound. (Obviously it's better for reproducing the visual art used on album covers.)
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 15:51 (eight years ago) link
objectively it seems like an analog waveform is better than a digital waveform, simply by not being limited to "bits"
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 19 February 2016 15:59 (eight years ago) link
If the music you're listening to is less than 35 years old, chances are it was recorded digitally.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:00 (eight years ago) link
i listen mostly to music older than 35 years
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:01 (eight years ago) link
this thread was funny when we were making fun of vnyl, surely there's a different thread for format wars??
― adam, Friday, 19 February 2016 16:07 (eight years ago) link
^^^
― shandemonium padawan (Doctor Casino), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:08 (eight years ago) link
The waveform issue is also discussed in the vinyl myths article I linked to above, it's well worth reading.
― Tuomas, Friday, 19 February 2016 16:08 (eight years ago) link
but there are like twenty threads for debating and/or trolling vinyl vs cd. "ah but you see, vinyl ITSELF is the scam" may be your opinion but it's not really what this lolthread is about.
― shandemonium padawan (Doctor Casino), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:17 (eight years ago) link
please, somebody post a link to a new subscription service or something.
surely there's some new article complaining about Record Store Day?
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:28 (eight years ago) link
i posted one upthread about the vinyl jukebox that Tuomas surely would hate
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:30 (eight years ago) link
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 13:46 (2 hours ago)
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:31 (eight years ago) link
http://www.intergameonline.com/coin-op/news/15368/sound-leisure-designs-new-vinyl-jukebox
Pretty sure saer would dig thishttp://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/jeremy-deller-creates-factory-records-jukebox-filled-with-industrial-7-vinyl/
It sounds simple doesn’t it? Cut a bunch of 7″ records with recordings of industrial machinery at work and call it Factory Records. Continuing his exploration of the twin histories of British industrial and musical heritage which goes way back to his seminal ’97 work Acid Brass, Jeremy Deller’s latest project sees the artist fill a vintage ’50s jukebox with archive field recordings from the UK’s lost coal mines, iron works and textile factories.
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:33 (eight years ago) link
xp haha, missed that jukebox link, now that's what I'm talkin' about!
OK that factory thing is amazing, would listen
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:34 (eight years ago) link
Actually surprised that wasn't a Matthew Herbert thing, though I suppose Herbert would take it one step farther, building a jukebox entirely filled with recordings of a jukebox factory, or something.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 19 February 2016 16:55 (eight years ago) link
There's no superior format and anyone who insists there is is probably just justifying their life choices
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 19 February 2016 17:01 (eight years ago) link
^as my own argument does as well
i like it all. i'm listening to an elton john CD right now from the late 80's and gus dudgeon remixed old elton tracks for cd and his vision for old elton songs was a VERY BAD vision. on the other hand, i bought thousands of late 80's classical CDs recently from around the worrld - u.k., japan, germany - and SO many of them sound outstanding. the classical people had a VERY GOOD vision of what old recordings should sound like in the digital age. total case by case basis. there are amazing MFSL recordings and there are not so amazing ones. check out their ziggy stardust on vinyl someday...unreal how they made that sound. truly epic.
you have to listen to a lot of stuff on different formats to really grasp the differences/positives/negatives.
― scott seward, Friday, 19 February 2016 17:38 (eight years ago) link
I said CDs are inherently better at reproducing sound, which is a fact.
no, this is incorrect - LPs are better.
― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:51 (eight years ago) link
at this point sick mouthy will pop in to say LP just means long player etc
― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:55 (eight years ago) link
I understand conversations go places organically but please as Doctor Casino and adam said this discussion ought to move over to an audiophile thread.
― Evan, Friday, 19 February 2016 17:59 (eight years ago) link
Cassettes are top.
― Mark G, Friday, 19 February 2016 18:13 (eight years ago) link
wonder if vnyl has any LL Cool J records
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 19 February 2016 19:00 (eight years ago) link
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ll+cool+j+vinyl&tbm=shop
there you go
― its subtle brume (DJP), Friday, 19 February 2016 19:03 (eight years ago) link
no, vnyl.org
― Evan, Friday, 19 February 2016 19:13 (eight years ago) link
demanding!
omg I had not looked at vnyl.com, what fresh hell is this
― its subtle brume (DJP), Friday, 19 February 2016 19:18 (eight years ago) link
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1484956/cool%20j%20vnyl%20small.png
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 19 February 2016 19:18 (eight years ago) link
com org whatever, this is terrifying
― its subtle brume (DJP), Friday, 19 February 2016 19:20 (eight years ago) link