Shady scams and other silly business ideas to take advantage of earnest new vinyl collectors

Er, since it's a commonly known fact, there a lot of sources, but this is possibly the best overall analysis of various myths relating to vinyl:

http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_%28Vinyl%29

The dynamic range of vinyl, when evaluated as the ratio of a peak sinusoidal amplitude to the peak noise density at that sine wave frequency, is somewhere around 80 dB. Under theoretically ideal conditions, this could perhaps improve to 120 dB. The dynamic range of CDs, when evaluated on a frequency-dependent basis and performed with proper dithering and oversampling, is somewhere around 150 dB. Under no legitimate circumstances will the dynamic range of vinyl ever exceed the dynamic range of CD, under any frequency, given the wide performance gap and the physical limitations of vinyl playback.

Besides the lower dynamic range, there are other issues that make vinyl worse in sound reproduction, such as the fact that low bass sounds have to be mastered in mono to stop the needle from jumping out of the groove.

And of course there's the fact (which is the biggest reason I don't like vinyl) that the sound quality of the record will inevitably deteriorate the more you play it, which isn't the case with CDs. This is particularly irksome when buying used records, because you'll never know how good the record you're buying is gonna sound.

I guess all this doesn't matter that much in rock music or other genres where a lo-fi aesthetic is common and flaws in the sound reproduction are not big deal to the listener. But the two genres I listen to most are classical and electronic music, and sound quality is important to me, so I'm not particularly enamoured by vinyl. Sadly, these days a lot electronic music gets its physical release only on vinyl (or even worse, cassette), though thankfully most of that stuff is usually available as FLACs or WAVs too.

I completely understand if people prefer vinyl for other reasons, be it larger cover art or nostalgia or the fact than many records aren't available in other formats, but when they say they prefer it for its inherently better sound quality, that's just snake oil.

― Tuomas, Friday, February 19, 2016 3:00 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Additionally, if listeners are seeking the best quality analog playback -- that is, the analog format that most closely reproduces the original master tape -- that'd be reel-to-reel tapes, not vinyl. But they're expensive (used or, especially, new), the nostalgia market for reel-to-reels is minuscule, and only one company makes new reel-to-reel decks (and only started doing so recently).

the two genres I listen to most are classical

CDs are definitely the way to go for classical music, not least for not having to flip the record over halfway through and interrupt the performance.

i only buy vinyl but sound quality is not really a concern for me. the larger art and the availability of really cheap used vinyl is the main reason that i got into collecting vinyl in the first place. then as my cd player died and i stopped driving (the car CD player being where i consumed most my CD music) and even stopped using the CDr drive on my computer, i found the used record market stayed the same.

ofc this thread seems about "earnest new vinyl collectors" not sure if it is the collectors that are new or the vinyl that is new, cos new vinyl is a ripoff.

thread applies to either, noobs buying old "hot stampers" or old heads buying some new subscription scam

Tuomas your crusade against any listening format other than CDs is so tiresome, you parade your ignorance around like it's a badge of honor.

ilx is full of posters on that crusade

the two genres I listen to most are classical and electronic music, and sound quality is important to me, so I'm not particularly enamoured by vinyl. Sadly, these days a lot electronic music gets its physical release only on vinyl (or even worse, cassette), though thankfully most of that stuff is usually available as FLACs or WAVs too.

― Tuomas, Friday, February 19, 2016 9:25 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm with Tuomas. Replace "classical and electronic music" with "jazz" and that's me. I like vinyl but rarely buy it anymore (and hardy ever "new" vinyl). CDs are pennies on the dollar now and sound as good today as they ever did or ever will. I've been buying albums I've wanted for years because they're just so inexpensive.

That said, two things I definitely "collect" - Dead bootlegs and a lot of ECM stuff - frustratingly seem to be holding their value on CD for some reason

Tuomas your crusade against any listening format other than CDs is so tiresome, you parade your ignorance around like it's a badge of honor.

What ignorance? I said CDs are inherently better at reproducing sound, which is a fact. And I also said I understand why some people choose vinyl for various reasons, but it's not for me, and tried to explain why my particular listening preferences make CDs (or lossless files) a better choice. Where's the "ignorance" or "crusade" in that?

I rest my case

I admit that this is a pet peeve subject of mine, but that's because I know a lot of vinylphiles, and I've heard these claims about vinyl's better sound quality a zillion times, so I tend to try to debunk them whenever I come across them. But that doesn't mean I'm firmly against vinyl or don't think there are many valid reasons why people can enjoy it. And some albums do sound better on vinyl than on CD, mostly ones that were released in the early days of CDs (when CD mastering was still in its infancy, so a lot weird choices were made) and haven't been remastered since. But there's no objective basis for the claim that vinyl is inherently better than CD as a medium for reproducing sound. (Obviously it's better for reproducing the visual art used on album covers.)

objectively it seems like an analog waveform is better than a digital waveform, simply by not being limited to "bits"

objectively it seems like an analog waveform is better than a digital waveform, simply by not being limited to "bits"

If the music you're listening to is less than 35 years old, chances are it was recorded digitally.

i listen mostly to music older than 35 years

this thread was funny when we were making fun of vnyl, surely there's a different thread for format wars??

^^^

The waveform issue is also discussed in the vinyl myths article I linked to above, it's well worth reading.

but there are like twenty threads for debating and/or trolling vinyl vs cd. "ah but you see, vinyl ITSELF is the scam" may be your opinion but it's not really what this lolthread is about.

please, somebody post a link to a new subscription service or something.

surely there's some new article complaining about Record Store Day?

i posted one upthread about the vinyl jukebox that Tuomas surely would hate

http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/sound-leisure-new-vinyl-jukebox/

― The Call Of Cthulow (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 19 February 2016 13:46 (2 hours ago)

http://www.intergameonline.com/coin-op/news/15368/sound-leisure-designs-new-vinyl-jukebox

Pretty sure saer would dig this
http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/jeremy-deller-creates-factory-records-jukebox-filled-with-industrial-7-vinyl/

It sounds simple doesn’t it? Cut a bunch of 7″ records with recordings of industrial machinery at work and call it Factory Records. Continuing his exploration of the twin histories of British industrial and musical heritage which goes way back to his seminal ’97 work Acid Brass, Jeremy Deller’s latest project sees the artist fill a vintage ’50s jukebox with archive field recordings from the UK’s lost coal mines, iron works and textile factories.

xp haha, missed that jukebox link, now that's what I'm talkin' about!

OK that factory thing is amazing, would listen

Actually surprised that wasn't a Matthew Herbert thing, though I suppose Herbert would take it one step farther, building a jukebox entirely filled with recordings of a jukebox factory, or something.

There's no superior format and anyone who insists there is is probably just justifying their life choices

^as my own argument does as well

i like it all. i'm listening to an elton john CD right now from the late 80's and gus dudgeon remixed old elton tracks for cd and his vision for old elton songs was a VERY BAD vision. on the other hand, i bought thousands of late 80's classical CDs recently from around the worrld - u.k., japan, germany - and SO many of them sound outstanding. the classical people had a VERY GOOD vision of what old recordings should sound like in the digital age. total case by case basis. there are amazing MFSL recordings and there are not so amazing ones. check out their ziggy stardust on vinyl someday...unreal how they made that sound. truly epic.

you have to listen to a lot of stuff on different formats to really grasp the differences/positives/negatives.

I said CDs are inherently better at reproducing sound, which is a fact.

no, this is incorrect - LPs are better.

at this point sick mouthy will pop in to say LP just means long player etc

I understand conversations go places organically but please as Doctor Casino and adam said this discussion ought to move over to an audiophile thread.

Cassettes are top.

wonder if vnyl has any LL Cool J records

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ll+cool+j+vinyl&tbm=shop

there you go

no, vnyl.org

demanding!

omg I had not looked at vnyl.com, what fresh hell is this

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1484956/cool%20j%20vnyl%20small.png

com org whatever, this is terrifying

oh man that "have a question? chat with us!" box popping up automatically when you open the site really is asking for it. "Vibe system!?"

it is the reason this thread was created!

pfft like I read the beginning of this thread

*furtively checks to see if I actually DID read the beginning of this thread and then completely forgot about it*

*phew*

they seem to have broadened the available vibes. i wonder whether a beat-up laura nyro smile is more #SNOWDAY or more #GAMENIGHT. #TROYESIVAN i guess.

they seem to have broadened the available vibes

if you need me, I'll be over on the out-of-context thread

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/vnyl-venice

apparently the store doesn't have many records and sells mostly headphones

i keep wanting to go to the store and check it out in person.

they also have just put up an enormous billboard a few blocks from our house.

http://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/XW6cGGhCbUU9qyEI79slYg/o.jpg

they have a nice wall of speakers. cos vinyl.

Beware if you sign up for the monthly subscription: it takes between 15-30 days to receive your shipment after they charge your credit card. Also, within six months, two of the shipments had duplicate records that they had already sent me. It's a cool idea in theory (music discovery in the form of vinyl) but they're super unorganized I guess. Bad execution.

doubt they planned for 6 months of continuous subscription

DJP you should watch chaki's not-so-hidden camera expose

Shady scams and other silly business ideas to take advantage of earnest new vinyl collectors