thread of getting sw0le

my casual reading has suggested that eg a standing cable chest press is actually better/safer than the bench press, and you don't need a spotter

TBC I didn't mean injury is not a concern, I just meant that injury is not that likely in a low-level beginner workout as long as you're warming up, following a reasonable routine, using reasonable amounts of weight, paying attention to form etc.

I agree, it's easier to get hurt with free weights than with machines, but in one sense that's a safety feature ... people tend to approach free weights more cautiously and concentrate more on correct form. Weight machines can protect users from many possible injuries, but they can also teach people how to move heavy loads without stabilizing their bodies with respect to gravity ... this can be counterproductive when they get off the machines.

The injury risk I'm fretting over comes from training primarily on machines and then trying to do stability-challenging movements ... this is most likely to affect people who are using weight machines to look good but who occasionally want to play basketball or whatever.

These days I think a lot of pro S&C coaches try to make their programs as functional as possible, in the sense of helping athletes work on movement patterns that resemble performance skills ... there's no substitute for squats, dead lifts, etc. for hypertrophy and strength, and machines can definitely help too, but task-specific power is what differentiates the best players, and that comes from spending as much time as possible training high-quality movement.

i started bench pressing w 20s/25s and within three months was up to 50s/55s.

ˆthis is v impressive, an example of somebody who really did their eating, much respect due

using free weights, being cautious about injury (no need to ramp it up until you've plateaued for at least a few weeks), and only paying for a trainer if you can afford it/it's the only way you'll get into the gym: all good advices

It was also noted above that the absolute most important thing is just to get to the gym regularly over a prolonged period of time. For me this is by far harder than figuring out what to do when I'm in the gym, and it's really about establishing an automatic habit. I have some tricks I have used, maybe some corny or quirky, but they have worked well for me. They are largely about reducing "resistance" to going and giving yourself pavlovian signals and rewards for going.

- Have a gym bag that is always packed and ready to go with everything you need - change of clothes (if you change at the gym), lock for your locker, shoes, headphones, snack, etc. Always have it packed, like an emergency go bag.

- If you are the type of person who keeps a planner or google cal or whatever, put it on your calendar at a certain time, like it's an appointment you have to make

- Be friendly with the gym staff when you go -- there's a weird psychological effect of having the staff know your name (for some people) that makes you want to show up

- Find at least some things you actually enjoy doing in the gym. For me, when I was working out at the Y, this was basketball. Now I don't have a gym with a court, but I'm in the rhythm of working out enough that it doesn't matter.

- Set an iPhone alarm with a special tone/sound that is only for the gym, and grab the bag and go as soon as you hear the alarm

- Have something with a little bit of sugar right after your workout -- this is tricky since you don't want to be like burning 100 calories and then drinking a 400 calorie juice, but maybe a protein bar or just a small handful of trail mix that has a little bit of chocolate in it. This makes you crave going to the gym because you crave the reward.

^ Some fantastic advice, especially the gym bag thing.

Stevie, I'd worry about a personal trainer overloading you; you want to start with slow, managable, even somewhat enjoyable steps. That being said, if using a personal trainer makes you commit to going to the gym (you need to be there at a certain time, a certain amount per week), then it could be a very good thing. You'll also get some good tips as to what exercises you should be focusing on, which could be cool.

There's very little risk of you hurting yourself. Just use common sense fairly lightweights (which you want to do anyway, because you are trying to slim down, not bulk up).

just catching up after some time away... don't get me started on "long, lean muscle" lol

DJP I know I'm already That Guy itt but if you want lean/strong/breath support yoga is... kinda amazing. learning curve means it takes longer to see the results but it's worth it. nothing has done more for me purely as a vocalist.

Decided to p much start from scratch on my squat and start doing regular mobility work at home. My hips are locked up as fuck and I've been compensating in bad ways, even started to feel a little pain in the left knee. Need to swallow my pride and let go of the weight for a while.

I have found it; the illusive thread that is WRONGer than the coffee thread. Damn, dudes, you're gonna get somebody killed.

vague and pass-agg post. but unrelatedly i might start a new thread.

lol get someone killed. It's just excersise geez relaxed dude. Probably more dangerous to NOT be doing any of this.

Near-max lifts on free weights, discouraging the use of trainers and machines, recommending youtube: ok, killed is an exaggeration (unless someone is bench pressing too much alone, in which case it's a real possibiltty), but this is garbage advice that could get someone hurt.

should i c+p all the posts saying "start light" or "work with a trainer if you can or want" or "here are some resources by respected authorities on how to do this"

Near-max lifts on free weights

i don't think anyone in here is telling someone with no experience to do that.

Ok, y'all, knock yourselves out. Beginners: there are a million and six ways to get fit. Bodies are all very different. There is bad advice on this thread and competent trainers are a bigger help than youtube videos. Good luck!

you were posting on this thread months ago holmes, no idea what your beef is now

...and I've been lifting for longer. This thread wasn't circling into weird consensus, ilxor-style yet. Now it is, and people are asking for real advice sincerely, and getting weird dogmatic answers back. That's not cool.

I mean, you have every right to your new age internet powerlifting thread with now interference from me, but the thread title is misleading and bad advice is being handed out to beginners. Not good.

the thread title is hilarious and there is a whole shitton of vaguely conflicting experiences on this thread

Well, yeah. It's the Internet!

if you're mad at lagoon saying "machines are bad" 10247 times just say so. machines are fine fyi.

i will not have this thread impugned!!!

Ok. Lagoon's advice on this thread is, generally speaking, fucking wack. Others on this thread have been as wack; more have been far less wack. You like?

personally, i never would've gotten near the squat rack without going to a trainer first --- i had three sessions instructing me on the most pertinent safety issues, and then i felt comfortable enough to get started on my own

if i could afford one on a regular basis, i would probably look for a sport-specific coach instead tbh

The buff dude at your local LA Fitness and the couple that took a weekend seminar to open their Crossfit gym are not going to save anyone from injury. They're also going to needlessly complicate working out (and from what I've seen/experienced of both, push you quickly to exhaustion so you feel like you've been worked out) to justify their existence and cost.

I'm also coming at it from the POV that the average person doesn't need to be doing technique-heavy Olympic lifts and super-heavy squats, unless they're training for a specific goal (weightlifting/powerlifting comps, a relevant sport). Starting light and doing what feels comfortable isn't going to put you in a lot of danger with the simple lifts.

"The buff dude at your local LA Fitness and the couple that took a weekend seminar to open their Crossfit gym are not going to save anyone from injury. "

Absolutely right. A bad trainer is worse than nothing sometimes. That's not even close to what your choices are actually limited to. Gyms and trainers want your money, so can actually shop around and talk to trainers and get their credentials and stuff -- and the best trainers are almost never at the fanciest, most expensive places, and absolutely never at the THIS NEW TECHNIQUE IS THE SECRET FOR EVERYONE!!!! places. The best training, in my experience, is at places that have a physical therapy or bodybuilding focus.

Starting light and doing what feels comfortable won't mess you up, but you can't stay there and see results -- you will get discouraged and quit or get bored and try something out -- a weight, a new technique you saw on the youtubes -- that can mess you up

You can definitely see results doing that. My number one recommendation to people is the revised 'Power to the People' template - two compound exercises at a 1x5-3-2 rep scheme. (i.e. some kind of deadlift/squat and a press. Deadlift+bench, front squat+OHP, etc. allowing you to mix and match).

Increase weight every time until you don't make one of the sets then dial back and move forward. It's quick, simple and you're not breaking yourself down so you still have the energy to hike/play basketball/whatever) but you're also progressively adding weight and you can put up good numbers.

If at any point that kind of progression completely stalls, you're at the point where you're willing to spend a lot more time in the gym and you can get into something more complicated.

The Internet's fascination with Starting Strength is kind of weird to me, though - it's a program that's based around wanting to put mass on young men to play sports. Putting on mass is the opposite of what most adults I know are aiming for with fitness.

the thread title is misleading

i'm so sorry you were misled by this totally sincere title

anyway, this was a fun, positive thread about things that are good for you and fun and interesting and now it became shitty. mostly because of dudes. no offense.

are any chixors other than harbl & yours truly even on this thread

i want to put on mass

I am doing Fitness Blender's mass program (cheap but also free if you want to put in a bit more organizational time) and redoing a small but workable spare room (aka Stevie D's room) as my lolhomegym (don't worry Stevie, it will still be your room whenever you like! No machines or anything weird like that, plus way cool WALLPAPER and fresh paint and art and shit).

Anyway all I can say is I didn't have any sustainable working out success until I tried a couple of things, and it turns out putting in at least 30 minutes at home works for me. So another cosign to the idea that whatever you can stick with is way better and more effective than whatever intimidating awkward controversial complicated whatever plan may theoretically be.

I am team harbl as far as this thread goes. Ilx's inability to read my posts as anything but 100% literally true and robotically humorless really confuses me sometimes.

The complicated thing about my program was developing it, not doing it. And I didn't develop it -- the guy who owns the gym did it, for free, when I bought the membership, and he updates it when I ask him to. There are gyms like that! They are not the super fancy expensive chains! There are many paths! I just think dudebro powerlifting internet style is one with a bunch of risks.

i am so confused. anyway i'm taking tomorrow off so i can go to the gym and interview for a new job. i'm eating a lot today to be str0ng tomorrow.

The trainer at my NYSC was great actually, really nice guy, very focused on proper form and lifting safe.

I think the whole "machines can cause a muscle imbalance" thing is probably only going to be true if you're training super hard on the machines. Just a guess though.

if you're not training super hard how you gonna get sw0le bro

There are machines and there are machines. I have seen crap machines in nice gyms. Machines do not eliminate the necessity for technique entirely, and they have to be adjusted correctly to fit your body and (sometimes) form. That's hard to do by yourself on the fly.

Been doing more stretching at the end of routines and some mobility stuff, especially working on my ability to just be in/hold/move in an ass-to-grass position without weight. Friday gonna try back squats again with lighter weight and see if I can improve form.

lighter weight? Fuck that shit . go heavy or GTFO this thread

Springboarding off of these convos, I could use some advice. I've plateaued. I work out four times a week, mostly weights (sometimes yoga or something else rotated in), and I haven't made any noticeable gains in two years. I'm naturally skinny, so bulking up is hard enough, but since suffering an AC injury (basically a soldier injury caused by overuse), I've taken the weight down to focus on not aggravating the injury, and concentrating more on my form.

It's working in that my soldier is finally feeling better, but I don't feel like I'm making the most of my workouts at all anymore. If I'm working out this much, I should be seeing gains, right? "Use more weight" is usually the answer to this question, but I'm usually using about as much as I feel safe using without re-aggregating the injury. Is there anything else I'm missing, or anything else that might work?

what has your program/progression been like? and at how advanced a point are you with your lifts?

it may help to change to a different progression (or take up one if you haven't yet) and maybe even begin working out less along with that, for a while at least. for some people, two hard lifting sessions a week is adequate and four is too much. also, maybe you can focus on different lifts for a while to work around your shoulder injury and allow it to heal properly?

You're not a professional trainer what are you doing giving advise here?

that question isn't necessarily one requiring a professional trainer. depending on how advanced Evan is, the answer may be very simple. if he is stalling because he lacks a consistent progression (which he did not specify yet) we don't require a pt to tell him to go on one.

then, we can point him to reading which will probably be more helpful to him than the majority of professional trainers.

if you are referring to the pointers on power cleans i gave above, i am not a competitive lifter but i have had my technique assessed by people competing on a national level. i know how to do those. people on the thread had problems with simple fundamental errors, and the advice was accordingly very basic and uncontroversial. most pts would be completely useless for those lifts, anyway.

xxxp - by gains do you mean muscle? regardless of what else you do, that's going to require eating more (with a reasonable amount of protein - like 1g per pound of desired lean mass or so)

xp this was totally a joke. There's context up above.

ohhh, i'm so dumb~

Oh damn sorry Yeah totally a joke. You're advice is completely welcome here as far as I'm concerned.

Your not you're obv