thread of getting sw0le

Using a spotter seems like one way to do it -- so you can add weight more confidently.

Are there any ways to continue to bulk up that don't involve just piling on more weight?

― Evan R, Monday, March 14, 2016 10:23 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if emerging wisdom is anything to go by, more volume

evan i would definitely imagine that's an eating issue. do you count calories?

I find the volume/weight thing so confusing -- I have seen credible-sounding articles claiming that higher weight lower reps is the way to build mass and I have seen the exact reverse.

higher weight lower reps (like Starting Strength's 3x5) generally builds more strength than mass, but for beginners either one is going to add mass.

Pyramid style, y'all.

https://i.imgur.com/lzDvDTc.jpg

i have horror stories about consuming cheap whey

one night i could've sworn i was going to get a heart attack

just mad mad palpitations

what is the deal w/whey. should you only use it after exercise? & then only after particularly strenuous exercise? fill me in

people have their own theories, because everyone reacts to it differently, so i'm not going to defend one over the other

my beef is that anything isolated (in this case protein) is harder for your body to absorb, i did get minor results with whey but even with vanilla-flavoured and mixed with milk, i got crazy palpitations and there was a point when i couldn't sleep for more than a couple hours a night because i felt so energised/awake. i tried it at three different times in my training (in the course of three years). the same thing happened every time. higher quality isolates worked better for me

i tried 1 hour before workouts. and then at another point i was only drinking it immediately after workout. and then at another time i was just drinking it with breakfast in the morning. i saw no difference. it did give me a jolt of energy each time, though

in the end i turned to consuming protein in its natural form -- it's more expensive, though -- so a variety of meats a week; beef or pork twice a week, beef or pork once a week (i interchange this), chicken a few times a week, veggie/low calorie one day, pig out one day

oh chicken is a couple times a week, actually. and fish once a week

evan i would definitely imagine that's an eating issue. do you count calories?

I try to eat as much protein as I can everyday; I eat lots of eggs and chicken and drink lots of protein shakes. I guess I could make a concerted effort to like, double my protein intake (mostly through supplements) and see if that helps, but I don't know how sustainable that would be.

I don't count calories but I try not to eat too many empty ones (though I do eat my share; I have a sweet tooth)

like it was mentioned already, there are a bunch of variables: age, weight, height, metabolism, muscle mass, body fat, if you just started, type of work out you're doing, etc

if you just started out and are pretty thin, my best guess is that you want to make sure you are eating at least the minimum when doing weights. you have to fine-tune this number based on your knowledge of your own body and see how your body responds, then go back and revise

you also have to fine tune your fat intake in relation to your carb intake. i'm pretty sure you can get fat in the areas you are working out the most (even compound exercises) if you stuff yourself with bad/processed carbs (pastas, breads, etc.), but this is not something you want. fat is good but you should keep your body fat % at a reasonable rate. some body parts grab onto fat easier than others, so that's just genetics, imo

for fat intake, snack on nuts (almonds, cashews, pistachios, etc.) -- my personal rec is get unsalted -- olives, etc. for good carbs, snack on baby carrots, have side salads, and if you're still feeling tired, eat a tiny bit extra of stuff like a baked or boiled potato or something. i find it is easy to overdo it, but you'll understand your body better as you experiment with it

honestly, i'd say cut the sweets. this is a shot in the dark but do you think your sugar levels are giving you a false signal that you are "full" or "have enough energy" so you don't eat enough protein or carbs? all this stuff is personal, so just keep in mind overdoing it on sweets can ruin your hard work

i don't have a sweet tooth. in fact, i used to only eat a chocolate bar maybe once a year. my problem, believe it or not, is that i wasn't eating enough sweet stuff, so i still felt a little tired. so now i eat dark chocolate (75%) a couple times a week, and eat sweet fruits, like apples, bananas, pears, nectarines, and oranges, once a day. i'll have a a slice of pie/cake or whatever once a week followed by an herbal tea just to help with digestion

i don't regularly drink juices but if i do, i will fill a cup with half orange juice and half aloe water. i try not to do this often because of the sugar levels. so i go a few months without doing it, and then i drink it a couple times a week (depending on how i feel) until i finish a 1 liter bottle

anyway, everyone's different. try different things.

revise, rinse, repeat

Whey protein is readily absorbed by the body in either isolate or concentrate form, isolate is good if you're lactose intolerant or don't want any fat/carbs. The old broscience rule of thumb was 1g protein/day per pound of bodyweight, apparently that's a lot more than necessary. .5g/lb or a little more is probably plenty and is way more protein than most people get in the American diet.

All the protein in the world won't add muscle/weight unless you're eating an excess of calories, though. At a deficit, protein helps protect muscle but building it is going to be tough (this is one of the most useful things about whey - you can be under calorie restriction while maintaining more lean mass than if you weren't getting a lot of protein).

You don't need to time protein intake before or after a workout or anything, all that's really important there is eating enough throughout your day.

i think it comes down to how your digestive system works. i understand people digest certain "things" slightly faster and others slightly slower. i feel confident in saying i digest my food pretty quickly

i think everyone should try different things and see what works for them, but my logic is the following:

However, due to possible inhibition of endogenous digestive enzymes from over-processing and rapid small intestine transit time, the average amount of liquid WPC that is absorbed may be only 15 g. The combined effect of these factors may contribute to incomplete digestion, thereby limiting the absorption rate of protein before it reaches the ceacum and is eliminated as waste.

from here http://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-5-10

hi Gravel!

Hi DL! Thanks everyone re: the mass stuff, going to take this advice and focus on the *transform* rather than the scale. Anyway this stuff is so FUN and it WORKS omg omg, I just like want to go every day.

Next dumb Q - I'm def increasingly conscious of my wrists while lifting as I go heavier, they're p dainty, do I need some kinda wrist support?

just going to say supplementing with whey i dunno, the only time i think it's worth it is if you're trying to hit a pretty high calorie mark. everything said above about amount of protein required is good. i think part of the whey broscience thing came from marketing / reading about bodybuilders etc. who were on juice and eating 6000 calories. if you're trying to get bigger, simple remedy is: eat more calories, eat don't drink protein except maybe some whole milk, make sure you have carbs around workout times. if your lifts are stalling, make adjustments to your diet, do assistance work - switch how you're lifting with rep ranges, deadlifts start some heavy rack pulls, squats heavy walkouts, up the volume on assistance work.

are your wrists hurting? is it a grip issue? i don't have impressive wrists but all the tendons and shit in there just got stronger as time went by, forearm and grip strength slowly progressed. early on, i'd take time off from pulling because my grip, hands, forearms would need more rest than anything else. i'd hesitate to recommend wrapping your wrists or whatever before you give them a chance to strengthen and get gnarly but if it makes you feel better....

It's def with pushing not pushing (wayy better at pulling atm because climbing background) but yeah maybe it's a grip thing, like when I'm holding a heavy dumbbell for like e.g. floor press my wrist feels like it's getting crushed

i dunno, i'd say check out how you're gripping the bar, make sure it's more the bar sitting on the meaty part of your palm and less rolling back onto the top of your palm/fingers. is that possibly the issue? i guess you could probably wrap or tape to work on correcting the issues that are leading to pain but probably just fuck around with how you're holding.

but hey, definitely ease up if you feel like you're crushing your wrist. don't wanna play with that kind of thing.

I'm of the school of thought that compound lifts should be, you know, compound lifts, so if one part of your body isn't strong enough to perform the lift at a certain weight, use a lighter weight rather than artificial means of "supporting" the weak part. You could also try adjusting your grip and hand position though.

ust going to say supplementing with whey i dunno, the only time i think it's worth it is if you're trying to hit a pretty high calorie mark.

whey is quite low-calorie (in isolate form, only having protein so 30g of protein for 120 calories) so it's very useful if you're trying to diet and maintain lean mass. Also good for diabetics, apparently.

sure alright! i grew up in a time when whey isolate powders and zero carb was hard to find/expensive. but still a normalish diet of whole foods, couple slabs of chicken breast a day and you're at 500 calories and 100 grams of protein.

I am enjoying the gym so much! I bike 4 mi there from work, do all weights, and bike 1.5 mi home. I'm still figuring out what to do w diet as I want to lose some of the fat I've gained in my midsection but maybe build up my muscles a bit. I try to have a protein bar or shake when I get home afterwards and also eat a reasonable amount/til I'm no longer hungry rather than feeling obligated to clean my plate or keep eating til I'm stuffed

nice! Enjoying it is half the battle, because when you do it keeps you going back.

otm. I reaaaaaally did not expect to enjoy it (I have a bit of anxiety surrounding sports and fitness, specifically cardio, bcz of v small lung capacity and a lifetime of being made to run in gym even though I simply physically cant) but it's become my little zen zone thing and I get to listen to fun electronic music and push and pull things v hard and the vibe is so chill and fitness-bro-free

Man, Stevie, congrats. You're gonna lose that weight if you stick with that routine. And the fact that you bike there on top of it all is awesome.

I feel you on the electronic music, too. I usually listen to rap or punk in the gym, but sometimes for the extra boast I listen to trap step, like those super douchey, bro-ed out dubstep mixes of trap songs, because it fires me up. Not something I listen to a lot in the wild, but it's fun just cranking it when I'm in the gym

I finally was able to do set of 5 benches at 200lbs without fear of collapsing on last one and having it sit on my chest (I know I know I could just ask a dude to spot me but I feel self-conscious about that). This has been a goal for a while so I'm pretty stoked.

I listen to podcasts pretty much exclusively which is only awkward when something really funny gets said mid-lift.

way to go on the bench!! that's some weight dawg

comedy v dangerous when lifting imo, seriously

lol that is exactly what wd happen to me if I tried to listen to podcasts

I do worry that I'm not doing enough weights while I'm there; the routine I have worked out is 8 different exercises each day, 3 sets of 10, with 45 sec in between each set. I'm usually in and out in like 45-50 min.

also it feels so awk only spending like 15-20 seconds actually doing the set and then 45 seconds resting, sitting on the machine, doing nothing, counting, hoping no one else is waiting to use it...

It's understood gym etiquette that people get to finish their sets before moving on. Sometimes if it's crowded someone might ask to "work in" with you, meaning they do their set while you rest and vice versa, and that's fine.

As long as it feels a little bit challenging to complete the sets, you are definitely doing enough. Even a few focused and challenging exercises are going to benefit you more than going through the motions on 20 different exercises.

I finally was able to do set of 5 benches at 200lbs without fear of collapsing on last one and having it sit on my chest (I know I know I could just ask a dude to spot me but I feel self-conscious about that). This has been a goal for a while so I'm pretty stoked.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, March 21, 2016 9:55 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nice -- I also have some serious benching fear and also feel too self-conscious to use a spot. My 5x max is around 170 now (i.e. max I can do without fear of dropping).

the routine I have worked out is 8 different exercises each day, 3 sets of 10, with 45 sec in between each set.

Impressive. This is a super disciplined routine; I don't have the discipline to time my rests. And nobody's gonna think twice about somebody catching their breath for 45 seconds. I see people get lost on their phone for minutes all the time

That's good to know. I'm still feeling it out and figuring how much weight I need to be doing for each exercise but "challenging to complete the set" is a great place to work from and will prob make the 45-60 second rest feel less awk and more necessary

Yeah basically you need to find a sweet spot in between easy to finish and can't finish, keeping in mind that doing a circuit of that many different exercises requires some energy conservation.

I see people get lost on their phone for minutes all the time

― Evan R, Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I do some serious annoyed hovering when this happens

45-60 doesn't feel weird to me, but 3-4 minutes sure can. That was what ultimately killed my one attempt at strict Starting Strength in a big chain gym. Even when it wasn't interfering with anyone, I felt like a tool.

Yeah, I generally abhor the gym pecking order—where the biggest, pushiest guy gets to butt in and use any machine he wants when he wants—but I'm all for machine hogs being hovered over if they aren't actually using the machine.

45-60 doesn't feel weird to me, but 3-4 minutes sure can. That was what ultimately killed my one attempt at strict Starting Strength in a big chain gym. Even when it wasn't interfering with anyone, I felt like a tool.

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, March 21, 2016 11:48 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i def felt self-conscious about the SS-prescribed "wait forever between sets". that said, my gym has a lot of squat racks/bars/etc so unless there's a crossfit class going on, i'm not likely to be bothering anyone

idk nobody in my gym ever does anything in a timely fashion, a lot of people refuse to break their shit down when they're done so you can't really tell, and a certain number of dudes will hog two stations doing some kind of circuit thing

i don't have a problem pacing around for 2-3 mins between sets.

crowded gyms are the worst

i love the circuit dudes, like 'i'm gonna use every device in the place for the next 20-25 minutes that ok?' no that's not ok

245 x 5 on my deadlift today for the first time.

it's up there with curls in the squat rack yeah

the type that really set off my manias are the guys that, when you ask if they're done with equipment they've wandered away from, give you some vague answer like, maybe i was gonna go do some more, but it's ok. oh you didn't have a STRICT PLAN for yourself when you walked in here fucker???

xp nice

btw do you guys keep logs/journals or

that's exactly where i'm at too, man alive :D

i could maybe go more but honestly it's my grip failing at this point