Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D

prett questionable claim from lemieux: "To many ears, mine included, 1978 is considered one of the best years in Grateful Dead history" ...

Ha, it's always fun interpreting DeadMarketingSpeak:

"one of the best" = meh

"while it's not always mentioned in discussions of their best years..." = complete garbage.

haha yeah. would be funny if they just doubled down on honesty: "While Garcia is clearly sleepwalking through much of these sets, and the drummers seem to be playing two different tunes at once, we all know you're going to buy this Complete September 1984 box set. You have no choice."

prett questionable claim from lemieux: "To many ears, mine included, 1978 is considered one of the best years in Grateful Dead history" ...

VERY questionable imo. Probably the dullest of their years.

yeah, not that i've spent a lot of time with shows from that year, but it does strike me as the worst year in the 70s. I've heard some pretty solid 79 shows anyway.

I am thinking they're definitely scraping now. The 67/68/69 and 91 (Branford) shows aside, the 30 Trips box for me is pretty weak. Cosign on 79 having a lot of interesting shows. Going back to Dick's Picks ...

Oh wait, this thing has the two Red Rocks shows on it? Ok now I'm down

I'm as big a Deadhead as anyone here, and generally a pretty big sucker when it comes to Dead stuff (Spring 90 box, anyone?), but '78 is pretty notoriously lousy, coming off the high of '77 and including the disastrous Egypt thing. I think there are a handful of shows that are decent, and yes the Red Rocks Betty Boards sound cool, but I'm much more psyched about this, which is the only reason I'm leaving the house on RSD:

www.recordstoreday.com/SpecialRelease/8343

Damm that looks sweet, wish it was on CD as well (Bardo Pond RSD thing w/ various Acid Mothers and Guru Guru ppl sounds worth stepping out for too, tho)

Only really know the 78 stuff on that lousy Closing of Winterland set - so weird how they're coming off arguably their best-ever live year (Tarfumes man, you've got to move beyond 74 by three years at least), and they still have their best-ever keyboard player in the group, and yet they mostly blow less than a year later. Heroin sucks, eh.

(Tarfumes man, you've got to move beyond 74 by three years at least)

I've tried. I listened to that Cornell show a bunch of times, and while I can objectively recognize it as Good Dead, I just can't get into it.

Cornell show a bit overrated imho (tho' the Morning Dew at the end is poss the best ever Dead version) - I much prefer the May 77 show on Dick's Picks 3 (15 minute Sugaree, an incredibly tight Help on the Way/Slipknot/Franklin's Tower, ends w/ Eyes of the World>Wharf Rat>Terrapin Station>Morning Dew - sooo good.) Even the disco Deadified Dancing in the Streets is p good.

I might give it a go, but it's the overall feel of the '77 stuff that keeps me away. They were sharp and almost sprightly up to '72; but '77 feels plodding and flumpfy.

at the urging of a few 'heads, i was checking out a 78 dicks picks today (new haven / springfield) and while it wasn't terrible, i think i lay the blame on mickey hart -- he just seems to be pulling the band in directions none of them want to go in.

ends w/ Eyes of the World>Wharf Rat>Terrapin Station>Morning Dew - sooo good.)

Am listening to this part now, up to "Morning Dew." Still not into it. I don't despise it or anything, but like tylerw, I place the blame on Hart. He was fine and sometimes great in '68 - '70 or so, but man, he's really dragging things down and killing a lot of the spontaneity. But then, Kreutzmann was getting to be a drag by '73, so maybe Hart got dragged down to his level.

The key word here is drag.

I much prefer the May 77 show on Dick's Picks 3 (15 minute Sugaree, an incredibly tight Help on the Way/Slipknot/Franklin's Tower, ends w/ Eyes of the World>Wharf Rat>Terrapin Station>Morning Dew - sooo good.) Even the disco Deadified Dancing in the Streets is p good.

― Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Friday, March 18, 2016 10:20 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is otm. DP3 (and 10) are classic 77 shows.

xpost
If you can't have a drag while listening to the Dead, while I dunno man *s

I def agree that the tempos, on the whole, slowed down after 72, but sometimes that works pretty well imho (eg Friend of the Devil)

it wasn't even "dragging" that was bugging me on this 78 show -- like on "eyes of the world" Mickey is playing this kinda disco-y high-hat thing. i'm not opposed to that in theory, but man the rest of the band seems opposed to it. and it goes on for 12 minutes without anyone really resolving it! i think kreutzmann is great through '75.

I might give it a go, but it's the overall feel of the '77 stuff that keeps me away. They were sharp and almost sprightly up to '72; but '77 feels plodding and flumpfy.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, March 18, 2016 10:59 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

at the urging of a few 'heads, i was checking out a 78 dicks picks today (new haven / springfield) and while it wasn't terrible, i think i lay the blame on mickey hart -- he just seems to be pulling the band in directions none of them want to go in.

― tylerw, Friday, March 18, 2016 11:08 AM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ends w/ Eyes of the World>Wharf Rat>Terrapin Station>Morning Dew - sooo good.)

Am listening to this part now, up to "Morning Dew." Still not into it. I don't despise it or anything, but like tylerw, I place the blame on Hart. He was fine and sometimes great in '68 - '70 or so, but man, he's really dragging things down and killing a lot of the spontaneity. But then, Kreutzmann was getting to be a drag by '73, so maybe Hart got dragged down to his level.

The key word here is drag.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, March 18, 2016 11:49 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It sounds like all of you guys need a good dose of both '74 and '76. '76 is my favorite year because it hints at the intense, tight, disco Dead period but still retains some of the jazz-y, stoned languidness of '74. If you dig '72 (and who doesn't?) but can't get with cocaine Dead, '76 is the antidote!

Hart haters should just start plowing through all the '74 shows (at least until October), which are mostly great. Some days I think the Dead's best years were the single drummer years. Weirdly, though, '73 seems to be a pretty mediocre year (although, as with '78, there are obviously exceptions; Dick's Picks 1 in Tampa is GREAT. Of course, that was December).

what 76 would you suggest -- that's the one where I feel like things just drrrrraggggggg

There are '76 shows still going on as we speak.

All of June is pretty representative iirc, and there's a Dick's Pick that has two shows from September that I remember listening to a lot. I forget which number it is though - too much Dead!

yeah it is true, sooner or later when i'm trying to like some show from 82 or something, i think jesus christ there are like 25 shows from 1972 I've never heard, what am i doing.

https://archive.org/details/gd1976-06-03.mtx.seamons.ht06.123898.flac16

i'm not a big fan of 76 but do enjoy this mix. really, really crispy sound with a nice dose of the audience recording to give you a sense of the room. the Help on the Way... is a favorite of mine, but could definitely be accused of dragging. It's dark and spacey and subdued and I like that!

"But then, Kreutzmann was getting to be a drag by '73,"

^^this is pure crazy talk, btw. he's their secret weapon

Always thought it was revealing that Kreutzmann was the one GD member who got to play on Garcia's first, superb solo alb

I love Kreutzmann on everything through '72, but the '73 stuff I've heard -- Denver, Evanston, IL, the Winterland box (all late in the year, so maybe things were better earlier?) -- he's lost a lot of steam and focus. Tempos started to drop, and he sounded indecisive.

i'm not a big fan of 76 but do enjoy this mix

Adore Seamons' matrices, I grab them whenever I can - most of his stuff is 80s and 90s, but he's done plenty of classics including 2/13/70, you can find him on sites as 'dusborne' or 'Hunter's Trix'

Thanks for the 76 recommendation, will check out - while I'm here I want to represent 6/17/75 which I think is a terrific show and has a decent matrix:
http://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1975/6/17-2

yeah it is true, sooner or later when i'm trying to like some show from 82 or something, i think jesus christ there are like 25 shows from 1972 I've never heard, what am i doing.

― tylerw, Friday, March 18, 2016 12:18 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha otm, that is how i feel, i've tried a little but i find it difficult to venture beyond 68-72 when there is so much in that period that keeps pulling me in

there is obviously much to like beyond those years though

I love DP3. Depends what you want out of the Dead though, I guess.

here i wrote a tool to help u decide what era of dead to jam out to, i find it useful tho it doesn't take into account touring hiatuses and stuff (yet) so it's not foolproof and may require reloading once or twice. however used in conjunction w/ archive.org and the many obsessive dead boot review blogs it guides me to previously unexplored corners of the dead and also my mind. http://output.jsbin.com/hetibe/

hahha thats awesome. sharing!

ha, me too, nicely done.

thanks! who knew that 9/6/83 would have a ridiculously sick "franklin's tower"

tyler this heads book is excellent so far, i don't remember which thread you recommended it on but good call

Can you guys recommend a good "Help on the Way?" Love that one.

Can you guys recommend a good "Help on the Way?" Love that one.

5/9/77 the best

The one from DP 3, same hear, has some great instrumentation. I didn't realize how critical Godchaux was, how he provides piano harmonies to Jerry's lines

Handy site for questions like these, I'm referring to it more and more:
http://headyversion.com/song/312/grateful-dead/help-on-the-way-slipknot-franklins-tower/

The one from DP 3, same hear, has some great instrumentation. I didn't realize how critical Godchaux was, how he provides piano harmonies to Jerry's lines

the "help on the way" from dp 3 was my gateway to the dead, it suddenly clicked

I listened through the Spring '73 tour a couple years ago at work. Of shows that don't get much mention, I think the jam from 2-19-73 is worth listening to, especially The Other One.

https://archive.org/details/gd1973-02-19.set2.sbd.miller.83023.flac16

That site looks pretty neat!

(headyversion.com)

Yeah I can't recall where I ran into that, glad you dig it! I wish I could find the 1993 trader's poll that the DP liner notes keep referencing, if anyone knows where that's at that would make for a good read

If yopu're talking about archive.org as the site that looks really neat, it used to be even better before the advent of teh dick's and later dave's Picks series. It's also good for a number of other artists including Dream Syndicate who have most of their live sets up there as does Steve Wynn. There's some Sonny Sharrock stuff up there as I just discovered last night too.

I think lute's neat site was headyversion.com, not the archive, but that reminds me, if you haven't checked out
http://relisten.net/grateful-dead/
or the app version
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/listen-to-the-dead/id715886886?ls=1&mt=8
you should, i find the interface very convenient

should have mentioned Relisten is just a wrapper for Archive.org files

Just checked out relisten - thanks for the heads up. The interface is a big improvement over anything else I've seen.

Relisten and Archivist both crash like crazy on my phone and that harshes my mellow in a big way. What else is out there?

Relisten is awesome

I'm probably just missing it, but is there a way to search archive or relisten for a certain track? I'm looking for early good versions of terrapin suite...