How Important Was Grunge As A Musical Movement?

heh, yeah I've heard Nirvana ... would probably like Mudhoney, I like the stuff I've heard anyway -- Stooges-y stomping stuff? dunno, I think the main problem I have with most so-called grunge is the vocals. Just a lot of bad singing going on there.

coffin break was pretty rad, but i dunno if they were totally grunge

the deluxe reissue of superfuzzbigmuff is essential.

However, Flowers says that he thinks his band is now making American music "a lot more playful and brighter"

delusions of etc

I've been googling Killers lyrics to refute Branden Flowers lies.

i honestly can't listen to nirvana with anything approaching perspective. i don't think i really like them but it's just colored by way too many other things to tell.

I like the stuff I've heard anyway -- Stooges-y stomping stuff? dunno, I think the main problem I have with most so-called grunge is the vocals. Just a lot of bad singing going on there.

I got off the bus after their major label debut but yeah Stooges are the main reference point and I've always liked Mark Arm's voice. He doesn't do the ass-clenched warbling Eddie Vedder thing.

ha yeah, the ass-clenched warbling Eddie Vedder thing -- that's the big problem. I can remember hearing Pearl Jam when I was a kid and thinking "man i just don't relate to that at all!" obviously some people did/do.

I really liked Eddie Vedders voice, but when all those other bands took the template I can see why it became annoying, but when PJ first hit the singing style was something fresh to many people.

I always hated it

I was just listening to the royal trux's pound for pound a few mins ago

every listen to it

argh I meant to type everyone listen to it

Melvins Live >>>>>>>> Melvins on record >>> Mudhoney > Nirvana >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other band that got called grunge

while we're on the grunge kick, i never, ever, ever understood why Neil Young got the "godfather of grunge" tag. Are there any grunge bands that actually sound like Neil Young? Even remotely? I know he toured with a lot of them (saw STP open for him in 1993, lol) and did the record with pearl jam but i'll be danged if i hear much Neil Young in those bands. was it just the flannel?

not just flannel, but also volume and sloppiness being used as virtues. but I think it was largely an association thing.

yeah there aren't very many clear similarities (unless we bring Dinosaur Jr into the picture, but they predate grunge "movement" by a bit)

Plus Ragged Glory came out around then and Sonic Youth opened for him and he was in vogue and got name dropped a lot.

right -- i guess there was a period pre-nirvana where grunge could mean dino jr and sonic youth. though honestly, "grunge" seems like the best term to describe Dino Jr, moreso than a lot of grunge bands.

Actually pre-Nirvana grunge just meant 7 or 8 Seattle area bands. It never meant Sonic Youth and Dinosaur unless journos were being lax.

Agree that it's easy to imagine "grunge" referring to Dinosaur though. Mascis just seems kind of grungy.

Vedder and his ilk are so fun to sing along to loudly with your friends. "eeeewaa flerrrrr, come arwahr like feeeevin flaaaaawwrrr".

Mascis' vocal whine also kinda similar to Neil

oh yeah totally -- dino jr and neil comparisons are valid!

and re: lazy journos calling non-grunge bands grunge, seems like there was maybe a lot of this in the UK?

Late 80s at WRCT, we used the adjective "grungy" a lot to describe Touch & Go type stuff, and eventually early Sub Pop. Killdozer, Drunks with Guns, Volcano Suns even. Don't remember it being pegged as a genre until after the NME thing in 1989 about Seattle.

and re: lazy journos calling non-grunge bands grunge, seems like there was maybe a lot of this in the UK?

yeah dinosaur jr, sebadoh,belly, sugar, helmet, babes in toyland even the lemonheads got called grunge.

yeah i feel like i read some old article from the UK referring to "American grunge group Galaxie 500" ...

dino jr kinda was grunge though IMO

yea i agree

i guess there was a period pre-nirvana where grunge could mean dino jr and sonic youth

SY and Dino Jr. had legitimate ties to the grunge scene...not the least of these being Nirvana themselves, who opened for Sonic Youth before they broke big...meanwhile J Masics was a serious contender to replace Chad Channing before they settled on Dave Grohl...

also SY's split 7" with Green River, and Dino Jr.'s whole Dio-meets-the-Cure (w/ special guest, you guessed it, Neil Young) aesthetic...

Don't remember it being pegged as a genre until after the NME thing in 1989 about Seattle.

WTF? Grunge was hyped in the NME???

that's the first place it was hyped! wasn't sub pop's whole marketing plan designed to sell a regional scene to the UK?

J Masics was a serious contender to replace Chad Channing before they settled on Dave Grohl...

I'm surprised that Masics -- who was a fairly big indie-star at the time, I'd guess -- would try to join Nirvana, which hadn't yet broken big (since Grohl was the drummer on Nevermind).

i'd heard that bit about mascis/nirvana too -- who knows how serious J was about that though?

I'm imagining some oakland impresario flying everett true over to introduce krumping or hyphy or whatever it's called.

re: jmascis what is the deal with him supposedly dating uma thurman at the time?

Why would the NME give anything even close to a shit about obscure rock music half a world away that even its own home country didn't want anything to do with?

get a clue

Late 80s at WRCT, we used the adjective "grungy" a lot to describe Touch & Go type stuff, and eventually early Sub Pop. Killdozer, Drunks with Guns, Volcano Suns even. Don't remember it being pegged as a genre until after the NME thing in 1989 about Seattle.

This was also my experience - though not sure about the NME thing. I was living in Houston at the time, and pretty much any gross, ugly, obnoxious, Stooges influenced rock group was described as grunge. Local stuff like Sugarshack I spent most of the early 90s trying to convince people that PJ and STP weren't real 'grunge' and didn't even make any sense as a description of whatever Pearl Jam was.

the Sugar shack mention was supposed to be backspaced over. nobody wants to see me reminisce about extinct local groups. :/

OK I'm assuming this hype didn't amount to much, since there are no grunge records in NME's 1989 EOY list.

Oops, wrong link!

x-post SY also had a Mudhoney split 10" where the bands covered each other's songs.

But I suppose so did Jimmie Dale Gilmore.

It was actually Everett True covering Seattle bands for Melody Maker that people are referring to I think, which was in 1989.

I spent most of the early 90s trying to convince people that PJ and STP weren't real 'grunge' and didn't even make any sense as a description of whatever Pearl Jam was.

this x1000

(except I'd given up by 1995)

x-post to ― slugbaiting (rockapads)'s namedrop. Ha. I put out a Sugarshack record! Actually upon inspection of Discogs, it appears I put out 2... (1993 seems so long ago right now). End reminisce.

Sugar Shack is exactly the kind of thing that I thought of as grunge back then. Hair, distortion, noise, garage, punk roots.