woody allen

^^^

they may be true. seems unlikely but I have no way of knowing.

yeah xxp It seems like they want Allen to be synonymous with the allegations, and for his work to always exist in the shadow of those allegations, the same way Cosby will forever be inextricable from his crimes.

That's an admirable goal if you believe he's guilty. I think they're coming from a noble place.

The challenge of course is their claims are unverifiable, so it puts the media in a tricky situation. It's not as simple as them just doing their job and fact checking, the way they could have with Cosby. And I do feel like the media has done a good job holding Allen accountable for the most obvious and undeniable of his trespasses, marrying his ex's daughter. "He married his step daughter" has been a refrain from 25 years, and will continue to be one long after he dies. I do believe the media would hold him similarly accountable for these other allegations, too, if there were such incontrovertible evidence that they could do so without being libelous.

the differences between him and Cosby seem pretty huge and obvious

Yeah Cosby prefers adults

over 60 of them

(or whatever the number is now, I've lost count)

he also says he feels he influenced her a great deal but she didn't change him at all. damn dude
woody allen protagonists are constantly educating their girlfriends. annie learns who thomas mann is, and that she can sing, and about death (instead of cats). tracy is a kind of favorite student who is always being monologued at; juliette lewis in husbands+wives is literally that. anjelica huston in crimes+misdemeanors actually says "you'll have to teach me, i'm so ignorant" about schubert. (despite woody's misdirecting presence the woody character in crimes+misdemeanors is martin landau.) in all these movies he's much smarter about his cherishing of girlfriends' ignorance than he has become: tracy leaves; annie leaves and gets an obviously bad play written about her (which now plays exactly like late woody); anjelica huston is murdered to schubert. but in all these cases except huston i think we're also to understand that their lives have been enriched -- and compare them to more recent stuff like whatever works (a '70s script iirc, but meaningful that '70s woody and '00s woody came to different conclusions about it) in which the comically ignorant girl is contractually bound to redeem the woody-surrogate (with love) as he has redeemed her (with knowledge).
anyway then he married soon-yi and in return for a lot of pleasure turned her into a rich and sophisticated woman who's "visited all the great capitals of europe," the same ones he makes into perfunctory and hermetic postcard-movies. tracy could escape early-woody, nailed to nyc, by bailing for london, but late-woody's a cosmopolitan, so soon-yi can only "visit." and the movies don't seem any longer to know why it's gross or that it's gross.
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Monday, May 9, 2016 6:01 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

booming post btw

tbf I think Woody's actual statement about his "influence" over Soon-Yi has been fairly misrepresented on this thread, cuz this is what he actually said:

She had a very, very difficult upbringing in Korea: She was an orphan on the streets, living out of trash cans and starving as a 6-year-old. And she was picked up and put in an orphanage. And so I've been able to really make her life better. I provided her with enormous opportunities, and she has sparked to them. She's educated herself and has tons of friends and children and got a college degree and went to graduate school, and she has traveled all over with me now. She's very sophisticated and has been to all the great capitals of Europe. She has just become a different person. So the contributions I've made to her life have given me more pleasure than all my films.

now he does attribute that growth to the opportunities he provided for her, but idk how anyone could really argue that point, it seems pretty obvious. And he credits her with her own growth, he doesn't claim to have shaped her svengali-like into a cultured person of his own conception.

the statement still seems remarkably patronizing to me. it would seem patronizing even if he were talking about his daughter, or his dog.

how would you describe Soon-Yi's life arc. no patronizing now.

i'm pretty sure mia farrow's other adoptive children haven't lacked opportunities for travel and education

woody doesn't seem to be the critical influence here

so yr objection is he's taking credit when it should be shared with Mia? who gives a fuck sheesh

he didn't adopt her iirc

she was mia's adopted daughter. he was mia's boyfriend who started having an affair with her when she was like 19 or 20.

it's not that it's not true, it's just hard to imagine a more woody allen way to talk about your wife (or a more woody allen "life arc" to enjoy in a wife)

let's remember this is a man who says "pupil"

ha well yeah no argument there

xp

He had absolutely nothing to do with rescuing her from the streets/trash cans/orphanage btw.

yeah, he certainly did not.

he fucked up her life if anything. she was totally cut off from her siblings and mother at the age of -- what? 20? -- and now is stuck with an elderly condescending narcissist for a husband.

let's remember this is a man who says "pupil"

he should remake vertigo

lol yes

he fucked up her life if anything. she was totally cut off from her siblings and mother at the age of -- what? 20? -- and now is stuck with an elderly condescending narcissist for a husband.

― Treeship, Wednesday, May 11, 2016 6:50 PM

but he's awesome on a stationary bike

I wonder what the Farrow clan want to have happen - for Woody to be arrested/charged/imprisoned? for him to admit guilt and be contrite? for his career to be ruined/for him to be ostracized?

to express their grief at having been abused by someone they trusted when they were too young to know who not to trust? to seek the nearest analog to making themselves whole by refusing to keep quiet about what they know is true? to bear witness? to process trauma, which is their right?

otm

as a young woody allen fan i used to be all c'est la vie about the soon yi thing and didn't think it had any bearing on the dylan farrow thing. but now i think it's pretty strong evidence that he is a person who is selfish beyond words and i wouldn't put it past him to hurt a child.

"visited all the great capitals of europe" is a pretty low bar for worldliness btw.

woody allen is a shallow dilettante though

that is specifically just the most late-woody-allen movie phrase. surprised he didn't mention she appreciates manet.

he fucked up her life if anything. she was totally cut off from her siblings and mother at the age of -- what? 20? -- and now is stuck with an elderly condescending narcissist for a husband.

lol now who's being patronizing

Treeship knows what's best for you Soon-Yi! Take his advice!

"visited all the great capitals of europe" is a pretty low bar for worldliness btw.

I'm sure she would never have had the chance to do any of that if Mia Farrow and Andre Previn had stayed together, I mean what did that Previn guy ever do? Who's ever heard of him?

Mia would've taken her to Ljubljana by now.

yeah shakey, maybe woody's sooooo amazing he is "worth it" but i think it is supremely fucked up that, given the circumstances, he sees himself as someone who swooped into her life and saved her from hardship and/or banality

if anything, woody should be contrite, or admit that soon yi gave up a lot to be with him. she gave up her family.

to express their grief at having been abused by someone they trusted when they were too young to know who not to trust? to seek the nearest analog to making themselves whole by refusing to keep quiet about what they know is true? to bear witness? to process trauma, which is their right?

hey I was honestly just wondering, wasn't sure if legal action was on the table etc. given that this is playing out in very national media outlets, they are using the tools at their disposal in a clearly well thought out way, I figured they had a specific goal. I mean it's not like they're just posting things to their instagram, they're using national media outlets.

Treeship are you and soon-yi best buds, is she actually sophisticated y/n

he does attribute that growth to the opportunities he provided for her, but idk how anyone could really argue that point

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, May 11, 2016 3:33 PM (42 minutes ago)

true, i'm sure most parents would say the same

oh snaps

And then marry their child.

so back to that interview... he really doesn't hate LA

woody allen protagonists are constantly educating their girlfriends.

a few exceptions:

Stardust Memories
A Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy
Zelig
The Purple Rose of Cairo
Hannah and Her Sisters
Shadows and Fog
Husbands and Wives
Manhattan Murder Mystery
Bullets over Broadway
Deconstructing Harry
Sweet and Lowdown
Hollywood Ending
Midnight in Paris
Blue Jasmine

also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that Alvy Singer, Isaac Davis or Judah Rosenthal are meant to be unambiguously sympathetic characters - Alvy and Isaac are neurotic clowns and Manhattan's arc is basically that Tracy teaches Alvy to trust other people, not that he shows her art cinema, and Judah is pretty much a villain

also, Woody married his ex-girlfriend's adopted daughter - that's p weird but hardly something you burn in hell for? also, she married him as much as he married her I imagine...

but obv abusing a child is something I imagine you'd burn in hell for - is there general agreement that woody is probably guilty?

Just to point out that she wasn't his ex-girlfriend when the relationship started with her adopted daughter.

As you say, weird, at the very least, but unlikely to result in eternal damnation.

hang on are we seriously debating this again? woody had an established father-daughter relationship w/soon-yi, dating from before she had hit puberty. this isn't levin and kitty scherbatsky here

can't help but feel that the disgust at Woody and Soon-Yi's weird marriage could have something to do with a "conservative" view on sexuality, that a lot of those condemning their marriage would also condemn fx gay marriage - but that's just speculation

probably also has to do with their relationship functioning as circumstantial evidence for the child abuse?

I guess I should be more skeptical wrt Woody's representation of things bcz in that interview I got the impression that they didn't have a father-daughter relationship but ofc that's how he'd like to frame it

can't help but feel that the disgust at Woody and Soon-Yi's weird marriage could have something to do with a "conservative" view on sexuality, that a lot of those condemning their marriage would also condemn fx gay marriage - but that's just speculation

Yeah, ILXors are well known for their opposition to gay marriage.

I was not referring to ILXors but rather the comment sections to the articles I've seen online