Ongoing U.S Police Brutality and Corruption Discussion Thread

Video is still unverified (and shouldn't autoplay in this article) but this just happened in the twin cities and basically I fucking give up.

http://www.citypages.com/news/graphic-video-shows-black-man-bleeding-after-police-shooting-in-falcon-heights-video-8415016

Incident now verified. Condition of shooting victim not verified.

Now reporting that he has died.

Stat is both slightly misleading and irrelevant to the thread. 15-35 year olds don't die of disease so their leading killers of all young men are always going to be either accidents, homicide or suicide.

yeah, but I bet the US is the only 'developed" country where it's homicide and not accidents

And relevant to the thread, surely, when being a black man gets you shot by the police

The fact that the police don't have their own version of M&M rounds is not just an indication that they lack the culture of self-reflection found (most of the time) in medicine, but that Morbidity and Mortality are not things they're actually trying to avoid.

Profile down or deactivated, video pulled, but mirrors and transcripts available.

I just can't get my head round the numbing horror of a woman so brutalised she calls the men who have just fatally shot her partner 'sir'

fuck fuck fuck the illusion of civil order in this country

What illusion? This is exactly how this country has defined civil order since its inception.

Oh man what the fuck.

From the sound of it the Minneapolis shooting is the second, after the Louisiana one - just, what, yesterday? - where the victim was legally armed, which made them a convenient target for police violence. Yet another horrible outcome of our horrible gun policy, though even if they weren't armed obviously the police have a habit of posthumously arming victims.

wholesale rethinking of what police are even supposed to be doing in the first place

It's an interesting question. I guess a major distinction is that a doctor is wed to the individual they are treating, whereas the police are charged with protecting the public at large, which gives them a tremendous amount of power and leeway, especially for people not nearly trained as well or as long as doctors. Which of course is another distinction.

it doesn't matter but was the first guy legally armed? thought he had convictions or was on probation or something. it is totally irrelevant to me, but to see white/right wing reaction to the first one as "he was armed" "he resisted" "he had a criminal record/was a sex offender" in comparison to the second one where a guy was doing everything perfectly and it made no difference.

i don't watch these videos either but this week i'm at my parents' house and they had news on and they played it last night, disgusting how they force it on you

I think the guy in Louisiana legally had a concealed gun. I think the guy in Minnesota, from what the radio said this morning, was shot not long after he or his partner told the police he had a permit and was armed. Neither sound like they were doing anything to justify being killed. Having a gun just makes it that much easier for the police to justify murdering someone, but like a said, shady police have found their way around that one for years.

Still waking up/thinking here. Another big distinction re: police vs. doctors is that afaik police really don't have a "do no harm" moral code a la the Hippocratic Oath, do they? Police are often like last resort front line medics or something, jumping into action with extreme risk, limited resources and the legal right to kill under the guise of protecting others, which is more like a soldier, but with a lot more autonomy than soldiers - solo or paired up rather than operating in a group - which fucks up the power balance even more. (Just learned that police are starting to carry insurance a la doctors, too.)

Is there standard police training, or does it differ from academy to academy, city to city?

there is accreditation for police as well as state police training standards so things are somewhat standardized but quality and resources differ

Another big distinction re: police vs. doctors is that afaik police really don't have a "do no harm" moral code a la the Hippocratic Oath, do they?

no. they're distinguished by their license to harm.

i feel morally derelict in declining to watch these videos, but reading about them is bad enough

yeah i believe police are doing what they are designed to do and the best training in the world, body cameras, whatever, won't stop it

There needs to be a major national initiative to push de-escalation techniques, just like there was a major national push toward militarization. Holding police legally accountable for illegal brutality is of course essential, but it won't actually get to the root of the dysfunction.

That's what I think anyway. There are two issues: cops are immune and violent responses to situations that don't warrant it is normalized. I see more focus on the former than the latter in terms of activism.

there needs to be a nationwide, top-down overhaul of our entire police and criminal justice system. it's monstrous in both construction and execution, one of the world's (many) great evils.

Sorry for the poor grammar - I just woke up.

The videos seem like cynical clickbait. Idk why you would feel morally derelict in not wanting to use a man's death for outrage-tainment. The push now needs to be for reforms and accountability, not prurient shock.

The videos are what's driving the story. Without the videos being publicly available, the police would again just lie about what happened. They're quite necessary. But I'm not watching them either anymore, and they need to be shared in a responsible manner. I would be completely shocked if it came on on the news, and I can't feel how hurtful and frightening it must be to others.

i feel morally derelict in declining to watch these videos, but reading about them is bad enough

― oculus lump (contenderizer), Thursday, July 7, 2016 7:29 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There's absolutely nothing wrong with declining to watch videos of people being murdered. There's everything wrong with people and news outlets shoving the videos in everyone's face. It's absolutely a plus that these videos were captured, and it's fine if it helps anyone not involved in the investigation to actually see the video, but I'm perfectly capable of being horrified without a visual aid being burned into my brain.

The videos are what's driving the story. Without the videos being publicly available, the police would again just lie about what happened. They're quite necessary.

yeah, that's what i meant. bystander videos are hugely important. it's essential that they be seen by as many people as possible. but i don't want to watch them.

(old lunch otm)

this also happened recently https://www.rt.com/usa/349585-cleveland-bbgun-boys-rice/

Right now, I am less angry with the people sharing the videos, who are attempting to give a wider audience to atrocity, than I am with the social media sites whose settings all default to autoplaying these things as you scroll past them in your timeline because it never occurred to anyone even after several years of high profile cases where stories where shared around that contained videos capturing the last moments of these people that this setting might turn their users' timelines into a horrible game of snuff film roulette.

Someone in the comments at LGM suggested that all African-Americans (and probably other minorities) should start livestreaming police interactions on FB, given what happened to Philando Castile. That way the interaction is preserved when cops do things like lose their body cameras or destroy cellphones on the scene. Probably a good idea.

Yeah that would be an incredible inconvenience/burden to them that could even put some people in danger if the cops took it badly. I think at this point we all know what the issue is -- we've known for 50 years. Pressure needs to be applied to legislatures, courts, and the police system to make systemic changes.

The need to apply pressure for systemic changes doesn't obviate the need to have documentary evidence for seeking justice in individual cases.

This problem is much older than 50 years.

i think that if you don't think police violence in america is a problem, you have a moral obligation to watch the videos. if you do think it's a problem, watching the videos is just making yourself viscerally sick for no real reason.

Someone in the comments at LGM suggested that all African-Americans (and probably other minorities) should start livestreaming police interactions on FB, given what happened to Philando Castile. That way the interaction is preserved when cops do things like lose their body cameras or destroy cellphones on the scene. Probably a good idea.

― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Thursday, July 7, 2016 2:21 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"These people who are trying not to die should have to work harder so they don't die"

I think at this point we all know what the issue is -- we've known for 50 years.

Way, way longer. We've known since the US brought slaves to their country. Blacks have been treated like second rate people ever since they set foot on American soil.

Not directed at you specifically, but come on.

xps yes

The specific activism against police brutality outside the south dates back 50 years, was my point... Obviously things were even worse before then

"we've known since" = the mainstream left has had no excuse not to be aware since

it's more than 50 years

Ok so that redoubles my point that we are long overdue for action on the federal level.

I don't watch TV news but my wife said the Sterling shooting video played like six different times while she was at the gym. Such a disturbing and fucked up reality to live in on multiple levels.

Maybe in the era of non-24-hour cable news it would seem less ghastly, like when you still had that moment of "now we will all sit down and find out what is happening in the world" and there was some quasi-appropriate air of seriousness to it at least.

Ok so that redoubles my point that we are long overdue for action on the federal level.

― Treeship,

Raher hard when it's state agencies running the show. Governors and state legislators bear first responsibility.

maybe there could be a way for federal civil rights enforcement powers to be increased legislatively, but mostly I think this has to come from the states, and ultimately it's better if it does. Not that I have much faith in Louisiana, unfortunately.

I thought that the "militarization" of the police, which includes certain kinds of tactical training wildly inappropriate for 99% of police work, was spurred by federal initiatives. Our whole concept of "policing," as a nation, needs to change.

I think that's more relevant to the responses to protests than to these traffic stop/911 call shootings. These are ordinary cops using ordinary chokeholds and ordinary handguns. But tbh I don't know the history to what extent the ultra-aggressive, shoot-first-ask-questions-later, cop safety at all costs, civilian-as-enemy style of policing derives from federal initiatives.

this is rosenberg on hot 97, obv a little theatrical but does get at the point about how police WON'T EVER even slightly criticize the most blatant terrible actions and even cold blooded MURDER done by another cop, it's so infuriating...but the caller here does that same goddamn song and dance "well we don't have all the facts we need to wait blah blah fuckin blah"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R07RyFN1cdY

The police in many areas tend to be overwhelmingly from the same right-wing middle class base that buys into and promotes the images of all black men as "thugs" that in turn help these cops become so shook and hateful that they can murder during a routine traffic stop where there is no actual danger to them. They practice apologetics for each other and come from communities that further apologize for them and reinforce their hate. The hemming and hawing is just the uncomfortable cpublic face of privately believing these cops most likely did the right thing.

Although I think it's also true that this mentality probably subdues some cops who might otherwise think the shootings are wrong into keeping quiet.

yeah i think you're right on both counts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gO8loTTJms

fwiw it's never a bad time to take a look at the policy platform and legislative information promoted here:
http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

there's a gofundme for the family

https://www.gofundme.com/castilevalerie

cool to see sean daley (aka slug from atmosphere) put down $500

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