i guess i'd just say.... and? what does it achieve to say "sooo many voters are racist!" how does that get you to point B?
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, October 2, 2016 11:29 AM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't know, but it just seems like part of the reason why discourse around this issue is so toxic, why there has been a failure to have an "honest debate" around this immigration like people are always saying there should be, is that everything politicians say about it is contorted by this requirement to dent that racism is a factor? so no one pushes back against the problem because they can't even acknowledge that there is a problem, and instead you get avoidance and double-speak and pandering which just makes the voters more cynical and the whole thing more malignant
― soref, Sunday, 2 October 2016 10:47 (seven years ago) link
to *deny* that racism is a factor, rather
Gosh, what would happen if, say, a US Presidential candidate were to describe a large chunk of the electorate as a 'basket of deplorables', for example? They would have no chance of being elected.
― (SNIFFING AND INDISTINCT SOBBING) (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 October 2016 10:52 (seven years ago) link
In a two horse race you only have to be better than one horse
― poor fiddy-less albion (darraghmac), Sunday, 2 October 2016 11:35 (seven years ago) link
i think there are plenty of ways to say that racism is a massive destructive issue in society but make your audience feel that they are, or can be, part of the solution rather than part of the problem. even if they are part of the problem.
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 2 October 2016 13:06 (seven years ago) link
the only people this bullshit doublespeak helps are moderates who are looking for excuses to connect with UKIP voters with a justifying caveat that thick fucking racists are a legit voice
― calzino, Sunday, 2 October 2016 13:40 (seven years ago) link
Thick fucking racists being in the minority here, and that includes among those ignorant proles, despite what the Guardian thinks.
― (SNIFFING AND INDISTINCT SOBBING) (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 October 2016 14:15 (seven years ago) link
Most ignorant proles have way more pressing issues that need addressing than hating, but these concerned moderates don't tend to attack austerity with the same vigour.
― calzino, Sunday, 2 October 2016 14:32 (seven years ago) link
in fact they mainly tend to support it iirc
― calzino, Sunday, 2 October 2016 14:33 (seven years ago) link
I must watch Mr Corbyn's speech!
I bet I will like it.
Freedland has been a big hack for a long time.
― the pinefox, Monday, 3 October 2016 11:17 (seven years ago) link
it's interesting to see the way the idea of democracy has been used by the right and how its been knawing at the conscience of a lot of centrists in a way it never has before. in the era of online petitions paternalism suddenly seems problematic. the elite is cripplingly self-conscious of its privilege and there's something paradoxical in the feeling that it's only by attempting to reach out and act in the name of the provincial, the deindustrialised, the people who don't care about the limits of their bubble that they are confident in their legitimacy
think I will stick to my guns and blame the ever-growing constitutional rot and democratic deficit for letting power relations get so obviously dysfunctional that it has allowed this self-abnegating force to gestate within the media class
― ogmor, Monday, 3 October 2016 13:12 (seven years ago) link
knawing?
― Ireland's Industry (that is what we are) (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Monday, 3 October 2016 15:13 (seven years ago) link
ah, gnawing
― ogmor, Monday, 3 October 2016 15:30 (seven years ago) link
I kind of gnew, was just making sure
― Ireland's Industry (that is what we are) (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Monday, 3 October 2016 16:13 (seven years ago) link
if you don't subscribe to the notion of false consciousness it becomes harder to tell people (you believe that) they're wrong
― don't even see how this was a duck (Noodle Vague), Monday, 3 October 2016 16:22 (seven years ago) link
yeah, requires too much nuance to square false consciousness with everyone's experiences being affirmed, and that sort of populist storytelling
― ogmor, Monday, 3 October 2016 17:31 (seven years ago) link
'We'll listen to your racism because what you've got is a legitimate and very concerning concern but we won't help you with your actual problems'
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 4 October 2016 00:46 (seven years ago) link
Very solemnly placing big, outsize joke-shop ears on their head, whilst unplugging all the life-support machines
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 4 October 2016 00:48 (seven years ago) link
speaking of
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/oct/06/diversity-is-a-boon-but-were-losing-our-sense-of-community?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:41 (seven years ago) link
Giles Fraser @giles_fraser Oct 5I'm a committed socialist. But I definitely prefer Tories to liberals. That's why I like May's speech. She is the anti-Cameron
um, ok then
― soref, Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:46 (seven years ago) link
oh good, accelerationism
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:49 (seven years ago) link
at least it's an ethos
― don't even see how this was a duck (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
I don't think that Fraser is really an accelerationalist, he's on more of a blue labour/red tory kick, and has been for some years now
― soref, Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:52 (seven years ago) link
it's the utter confidence and authority with which he spews this shit
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 6 October 2016 19:07 (seven years ago) link
I always enjoy a good Giles Fraser Thought for the Day, by enjoy I mean marvel at the fatuousness of.
― dancing jarman by derek (ledge), Thursday, 6 October 2016 19:14 (seven years ago) link
I MEAN THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ETHNICS IS THEY KEEP TO THEIR OWN KIND, DON'T THEY? THEY DON'T WANT TO LEARN THE BLOODY LANGUAGE.
― don't even see how this was a duck (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 October 2016 19:16 (seven years ago) link
Trust is good, but not trusting outsiders is bad. Diversity is good but lack of cohesion is bad. Friendship is good but not the kind you get on the interet. Business likes diversity but business is bad - right? The past was ok but we don't want to go back to the past. Crikey, this is confusing, no wonder poor Giles can't work it out.
― dancing jarman by derek (ledge), Thursday, 6 October 2016 19:24 (seven years ago) link
Brexit and the new mood in politics is misunderstood as a hostility to outsiders, though it is easily purloined by racists. Rather, it is a cry for community, for togetherness, for the local, for mutuality, for social solidarity. Theresa May, the vicar’s daughter, wants to find all this in a return to the past. That’s the wrong answer. But at least she’s answering the right question.
what an unfortunate misunderstanding, thank heavens Giles is here to set us right! is there any case for "Lexit" that isn't based on this "ppl say they hate foreigners, but what they actually mean is that they agree with me" wishful thinking? (aside from accelerationism, I guess?) iirc correctly during the referendum he was pro-brexit but also said that we should have *more* immigration?
― soref, Thursday, 6 October 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
ime lexiters broadly believe that 1) the eu has become a fundamentally neoliberal institution & 2) the single currency is a recipe for disaster. which is kinda hard to argue with tbrr, but imo it's a long unconvincing road to 3) therefore the UK should leave it
larry elliot voted leave "in order to shake things up" well be careful what you wish for mate
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
There are also leftwingers who are against freedom of movement because it's part of globalisation, treating workers as resources who are expected to move around the continent as capitalism requires. Job low paid or non-existent? Get on your bike and move to another place where you're more in demand.
― Alba, Friday, 7 October 2016 13:22 (seven years ago) link
never feel lower than when giles fraser is trolling me with his hobbit morality in 2016
― ogmor, Friday, 7 October 2016 20:01 (seven years ago) link
Larry Elliot is really beginning to piss me off...I had been a fan of his columns for some years, but he's now writing crap like this:
Will dearer food and the coming squeeze on living standards will prompt a change of heart about Brexit? Remainers should not bank on it. Life has not been great for many in recent years anyway. What’s more, Britain is a country with a streak of cussedness that delights in having its back to the wall.
― Half-baked profundities. Self-referential smirkiness (Bob Six), Sunday, 16 October 2016 13:41 (seven years ago) link
Britain is a country with a streak of cussedness that delights in having its back to the wall.
Pretty sure that can't be England he's talking about.
― Robby Mook (stevie), Monday, 17 October 2016 08:57 (seven years ago) link
Pixie geldof interview: frowns on paparazzi, links to salacious paparazzi pics.
― quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Sunday, 30 October 2016 09:26 (seven years ago) link
paper edition doesn't have any papped photos.
― koogs, Sunday, 30 October 2016 12:03 (seven years ago) link
Yeah they should offer the bonus content to those who actually pay.
― quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Sunday, 30 October 2016 14:43 (seven years ago) link
Free glossy pamphlet of pap shots.
― quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Sunday, 30 October 2016 14:44 (seven years ago) link
page 44 of the magazine "Nearly everything in the house is secondhand" says the owner of Aerende, which will sell you, on page 47, a £185 duvet cover and a £7 bar of soap.
― koogs, Sunday, 30 October 2016 18:35 (seven years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2016/nov/09/with-trump-victorious-time-to-support-fearless-independent-journalism
Jesus Fucking Christ. I think I would genuinely prefer one of those 'Cheer yourself up with a gingerbread latte!' offers.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 9 November 2016 17:07 (seven years ago) link
rolling thread of shaming PRs who make omg-eyecatching references to the election results to promote their artist shite fucking paper
― calzino, Wednesday, 9 November 2016 17:21 (seven years ago) link
Naomi Klein entering her Scott Adams phase
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/rise-of-the-davos-class-sealed-americas-fate
I thought the article couldn't be as crass as the subbing made it out to be, but I was wrong
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:02 (seven years ago) link
lol you stole my criticism!
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:05 (seven years ago) link
Did you actually say that? Not consciously nicked, honest, but it's the sort of thing that sticks around.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:15 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/rmkf/status/796278820546482176
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:17 (seven years ago) link
That shit is everywhere right now in fairness.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:19 (seven years ago) link
it is insufferable tho, all day on twitter today and yesterday
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:20 (seven years ago) link
xpost, yeah! awful.
From the other thread:
Hillary is definitely going to delete this email
<liveyourc✧✧✧@yplan✧✧✧.c✧✧>
That's the kind of guy we want leading the free world
(BIG GIF OF TRUMP AT WRESTLEMANIA)
Have you ever taken out Vince McMahon live on WWE? Nah, didn't think so. Have you ever set up your own university? Oop, no, you haven't. And I bet if someone gave you a small loan of a million dollars you wouldn't even know what to do with it. Sounds like Donald just clotheslined your libertarian, democratic opinions right out of the window.
But seriously, before you go home and start building your own wall around your property to keep out all the post-apocalyptic raiders you'll be fighting off after the nuclear war, maybe go out, take one last gulp of fresh air and hit up some the hotspots in London we've been stockpiling for just such an eventuality. Believe us – these are the memories you'll cling to after all else has crumbled in the wake of WWIII…have fun!
― Matt DC, Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:21 (seven years ago) link
Just gonna take my mind off the rise of fascism by standing around a gas burner eating a £12 burger while some twat plays a Gorgon City tune.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:23 (seven years ago) link
the thing is, I actually did go out last night - so maybe they're onto something. the place i went wasn't tweeting at me.
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Thursday, 10 November 2016 11:25 (seven years ago) link